Interesting. Lots of claims made, but since the Rogers folks have probably forgotten more about shooting than I will probably know I'll give them a try, especially if they come in VP9 flavor.
Interesting. Lots of claims made, but since the Rogers folks have probably forgotten more about shooting than I will probably know I'll give them a try, especially if they come in VP9 flavor.
Subscribed. Any info on the specs. Front sight width, rear notch width etc... It would be great if the rear was compatible with HD fronts.Originally Posted by NickDrak
Last edited by 23JAZ; 06-07-2016 at 09:34 AM.
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I would surely want Mr. Rogers on my team regardless of what sights he might be using.
Directs my vision eh?
Looks like a swell sight. I'm not buying the special angles stuff. But it looks like a good HD like sight.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
Thanks. Is that front sight going to have tritium?
Honestly I can live w/out tritium rears, and probably prefer it, but I find comfort in a tritium front.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Nyeti"
Its going to be a rear sight only from my understanding.
Last edited by NickDrak; 06-13-2016 at 10:55 PM.
Hello to All,
I was emailed a link to this thread, (and another thread on TPI) by a customer of ours. They asked if we wanted to post to add some clarification to our RTS product. I have always been a fan of this forum, as well as a few select others, based on the quality of information that is shared/posted.
Production lead times for the GRIP FORCE RTS got a little backed up after the SHOT show. We are back on track now and will hopefully have some updated news on our first production run within thirty to forty-five days.
Our RTS sight is a (rear sight only) designed to be used with other existing front sights on the market. It will be sold as a replacement rear sight only, so the customer can use it with their existing front sight as long as it is the correct height/dimension. We will also sell our RTS sight paired as a complete set with other sights. Initially we will be offering a plain rear sight that can be used with any front sight width from .125" through .105", and a height of .215".
That first sight will most likely be paired and sold as a set with a Dawson Precision .125" wide by .215" high fiber optic front sight. We do have plans to offer a two dot tritium rear sight as well. Eventually we will also be offering rear sights with different width U notches, both .146" W and .156” W. That way they can be used with a variety of front sight widths.
For example, if a customer uses a specific width tritium or fiber optic front sight that they like, they would get a specific model of the RTS sight to match. For the Trijicon HD front sight which has been on the market for a few years now, and is much thicker at .144" W x .215"H, the customer should choose to pair it with the plain or two dot tritium rear sight that has a U notch width of .156" W. that will match the current HD front.
In addition to sights for Glocks, other models are being considered as well. Demand will drive the development for (S&W M&P, SIG 320, HK VP9, XD, etc).
Re: POA/POI
There are several factors/variables related to point of aim, point of impact. A lot has to do with bullet weight, barrel length, lock up time, pistol design, etc. In speaking about 9mm ammunition, we have seen in testing that a general POA/POI with a .215" H front sight is 15 yards. If the shooter wants a 25 yard zero on their pistol, they usually have to move to a front sight that is .230" to .245" high. In testing our RTS sights with 115, 124, and 147 grain ammunition, and front sights of varying height, .215", .230", and .245", we have seen good results at both 15 and 25 yards. There are many variables to this equation though, and each individual will have to figure out their own combination to match their preferred duty or practice load. POA/POI may vary depending on caliber, bullet load, individual pistol, etc.
Re: Our Product Video
Yes, Bill Rogers is a highly skilled shooter that can shoot anything very well. For as much as I have seen him shoot, I know that to be a fact. I do feel though that all shooters, even highly skilled ones, can get an advantage from what equipment they choose to use. That is why shooters of all skill levels have personal preferences for gear and equipment set up.
Back in March during the first class of this year at his school in Georgia, we asked Bill Rogers to test fire a final prototype rear sight of ours (plain RTS rear paired with .125 W" x 215" H Dawson Precision (red) fiber optic front sight). Prior to him installing our prototype sight for that first class, we had some correspondence back and forth. In it, he told me that he was "installing the sights on his school pistol and will shoot them all day Monday as he does with any course." He also added that he "will do his best, but he had not fired a shot since the previous November. I am a little rusty."
After his Monday range instruction he emailed me back with the following feedback; "I shot 124 today after not shooting since November. The shot I missed was Test 6, strong hand only reload drill. I had a damaged magazine that would not fall free. I finally cleared it and reloaded but target 1 vanished before I could fire at it. That was the only miss. The sight worked great. I had several of the students ask me about the sight. I will let them all have a chance to shoot it."
For those of you that do not know, the scoring on the school's Test has a possible 125 points. Very few people in the long history of the school (3 decades) have shot a "possible" 125 out of 125. Bill himself has done it two, maybe three times, I believe Rob Leatham did it as well, and back in 2014 Gabe White and Manny Bragg did it on the same day. For those that have shot the Test, you realize how difficult it is, and how much of an accomplishment it is to shoot a perfect 125 score on it.
When Bill reported about not being able to get a shot off on (Target 1/Test 6) due to the damaged magazine not falling free, that could/should probably be put into context.
Here is a link to a video on Test 6.
Rogers Test 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr0qBBQ-_sE
That shot that Bill was not able to get off on Target 1 is without a doubt the closest/easiest shot to hit. I have never seen him miss it on that Test, and I would be surprised to hear of any former student that have seen a miss from him shooting Target 1 on Test 6. The point I am trying to make is that if Bill would not have had a damaged mag get hung up in his gun, it is very possible (and highly likely) that he would have cleaned Test 6, the same way that he cleaned the other 8 Tests that day.
We like to think that the fact that he was coming off of a four month break of not having fired a shot, combined with the fact that he shot one point down from a "possible" 125 perfect score, is very good testing data to the validity of our sight design. In all of those years, the fact that so few have shot perfect 125 scores is a testament to the difficulty of the Test. To be so close to a "possible" and have an equipment issue (most likely) prevent it, was sort of ironic. There may be other highly skilled shooters (GM or M) across the planet that can shoot a "possible" on the Test, but they have yet to go there and do it.
We feel that the target system at the Rogers School offers one of the most effective platforms with which to test equipment on. It is a repeatable, computer controlled environment that one can get a lot of valuable testing data from. The main variable is the shooter themselves, therefore individual performance is solely depending on the individual (barring any equipment/ammunition issues or malfunctions). In addition to testing on the Rogers system, much testing has been done in other locations and conditions as part of our sight development.
Our sights were designed, developed, and tested over the last few years with several different prototype variants. As with our Grip Adapters, we are very concerned with the opinion of those whose lives depend on their gear (MIL/LE/CIV). We want serious minded individuals to consider our products as legitimate, as they are designed and intended to be an advantage for the good guys. Recognizing the value of it, we also want dedicated competition shooters to consider our sights a distinct advantage. In whatever application the end user decides to utilize our sights, accuracy and speed are key in one's performance, regardless of what range it is on (one way/two way).
Everyone is different in what they like and how they shoot. I am 100% confident in our design. If a specific shooter does not like them, I completely understand. You just may not like how your specific eyes see them, or you may prefer sights from another manufacturer. We will take no offense if you do not like them. Personal preference and demand for something different created and pushes the marketplace...to each his own. We do hope that many shooters of all skill levels like our sights/designs, and see the performance benefits in them.
There is another thread going on over at the TPI forum. Based on some comments over at that thread, we posted some additional information over there regarding our sights/their design. You must be a member/register over there to view the forum.
http://www.totalprotectioninteractiv...ad.php?t=20043
We hope this helps clarify some questions about our RTS. I apologize that we do not have more of a presence on line, but we simply do not have the time to devote to posting and replying. Please check back on our web site in the next thirty to forty-five days for any updates on availability.
Take care and be safe,
FJR
Grip Force Products
Last edited by FJR; 06-13-2016 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Spelling Error
That is awesome! Will definitely be purchasing rear tritiums when they are released.
I'm very interested in 2 dot tritium rears for a P2000 that would pair with an HD front
Add me to the list of people hoping for an HK option, preferably of the P2000 flavor.
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