While I agree re: administrative handling, ease of shooting cannot be ignored. For a new or occasional shooter, the difference could easily be the difference between a hole in a bad guy and a hole in someone or something that doesn't need a hole in it.Originally Posted by ReverendMeat
I would say that safer administrative handling could be the difference between a hole in someone or something that doesn't need a hole in it and no hole at all. I would also bet that administrative handling happens to the average gun owner far more often than gunfights do.
Hell, not only that, but something "shootable" to the average gun owner still results in "groups" measured in feet at 7 yards and IMO is of tertiary importance at best.
"Customer is very particular" -- SIG Sauer
I would rather someone have a little more difficulty (and seriously, how difficult is the administrative handling of a Glock?) at a time when they are not under stress, and can take their time to do things right, in order to have an easier time doing what needs to be done quickly and under stress. If they can at least get "Never point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy" right, then at worst they will get an important lesson. From what I have seen, the people most likely to be told they "need" a revolver are the people most likely to have enough difficulty manipulating the heavy trigger to make a difference between a hit and a miss on a bad guy, even at typical self-defense distances.
Revolver or pistol the biggest issue I see with new shooters as well as old is lack of training.While we strongly suggest it to new shooters,most don't take our heed.Most people have there minds made up that they want a pistol and don't even mention revolvers. While BillSWPA made very valid points,I still strongly believe the revolver is the better choice.Some of the women that do end up with revolvers,do so as a default because there unable(or unwilling to learn)to pull the slide back and also manipulate the slide stop.
I've been selling too many guns to too many people for too long, it seems, and am not quite as optimistic as you are.
That's a big "if" and is not something I'd put money on.If they can at least get "Never point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy" right
Administrative handling of a Glock is pretty difficult, as with every other autoloader on the market, to people who don't know how guns work. You know how guns work and it's honestly difficult for me to try to explain this, but basically there's a lot of people who are able to load and shoot their guns by way of memorizing a series of steps (i.e. put bullets in magazine, put mag in gun, pull slide back, pull trigger), but who do not actually understand the function of those steps. WHEN and WHY to pull the slide back is a source of confusion. HOW and WHY the slide sometimes locks back and sometimes doesn't is a source of confusion. HOW to make the slide go back forward--you would not believe how many times I see people trying to release the slide by pulling the trigger. Hell, even which direction the fucking bullets go is a potential source of confusion.
Now take a guy who has memorized enough steps to gas up his piece at the range and make loud noises. Ask him to check and see if his gun is loaded. There's a few ways that can go depending on the order in which he performs his certain memorized steps and can result in an unloaded gun being made loaded or vice versa.
With a modern revolver there is only one button, no components that reciprocate faster than the eye can see, the bullets can only go in one way (I have seen people screw up loading a revolver but it's very rare), and its status can be more or less verified just by looking at the gun.
I say this, yet it still always made me kinda happy when I get a lil' old lady coming in looking for a airweight J-frame 'cause her cop friend told her that's a perfect gun for women, and leaving an hour or so later with a Glock 19 and snap caps. Some folks learn, some (many) memorize. There's a difference and the latter would be better served with revolvers IMO.
"Customer is very particular" -- SIG Sauer
There have been 29 AD/ND resulting in injury or death in my county this year. Two were with a revolver. One was a very old non-drop safe revolver that got dropped. The other was a middle school aged child who found the gun and put it in his pocket with the hammer cocked and other items in his pocket.
One was with a shotgun. Shoving a long gun down your pants leg may not be the best plan.
The remainders were with semi-autos. Causes varied and I'm not in front of my spread sheet, but the last three (which were in a 4 day span) were all due to magazine removal without clearing the chamber, then pointing it at self or other, and pulling the trigger to break the gun down. I know that's one of the top causes overall, finger still in the trigger guard upon reholstering and general playing with it are also common causes.
Now, we don't know how many semi-autos are out there vs revolvers and how often each is handled, etc. I think the indication is revolvers are not as prone to NDs, particularly during administrative handling, though.
One of the biggest mistakes i made in teaching my wife how to shoot was letting her try an airweight J-frame too soon. She was doing okay with most 9mm's and even a couple of .45's, but the J-frame induced a flinch that it took me years to correct. This last sentence tells me that we are not as far apart in our thinking as it previously appeared, and that you are giving serious thought to what you recommend to who. I will concede that I have at times felt that someone was better off with a revolver, although in those cases it was the individual themselves who, when shown a semiauto, said that it was too complicated and was only interested in revolvers.
Several months ago, we had an incident locally wherein a father brought a gun into a gun store attempting to sell it. When the store was not interested, he returned to his car. When he got back to his car, as he went to put the gun in his center console, he somehow managed to have his gun pointed at his 7 year old son with his finger in the trigger. He had a negligent discharge, killing his son. When I searched for a news report of the incident, it seems he had removed the magazine but left the chamber loaded. I also had a tough time finding the story at first because my search turned up numerous reports of accidental shootings of sons by fathers.
I have long taken the position that guns are not tools for the careless or stupid, that when handling or using one, appropriate care must be taken, and that maximizing the likelihood of hitting the intended target minimizes the danger to everyone else who might be around. However, this search plus the post by BehindBlueIs is forcing me to think that perhaps there is some basis for the theory or revolvers being more appropriate in at least some cases.
As a retired LEO I carry daily a 638 in my strong side pocket nestled in a De'Santis Nemesis Holster. I also carry a BUG 642 in my weak side cargo pocket also in a Nemesis. A pair of speed loaders in the strong side cargo pocket. On occasion a G26 will be worn on my hip at 4 o'clock but that is rare. A G17 in a small bag with extras is usually in the car and back in the house by the bed when not out and about. When spending time on the road the 642 goes on the ankle in a Renegade ankle rig. Works for me with my current lifestyle.
My wife does not carry and prefers the Beretta 92D by her side of the bed at home. She is however familiar with the 638/642's operation and has passed an "off duty" qualification course with it and as such it would be available to her if circumstances required.
I really like revolvers and am planning to shoot my brace's of model 10's and model 19's in most of the upcoming matches for the rest of this year. Shooting a revolver well has a special type of satisfaction to me that my Glocks and Berettas do not provide.
I've been evaluating my potential future needs and have decided I may want to add a few mid-sized revolvers into my collection along with maybe one steel 5 shot snub and one more s&w 642 no-lock.
I'm really liking the idea of the Wiley Clapp 3inch GP100s with the gold bead and a 2.5 inch SP101 as both models really look to be "plug & play" and might be enough to get me started in terms of having a brace of revolvers to train with. I tend to like pistols I can appendix carry. Are there any issues with the Rugers
in terms of quality I should be looking out for ?
Thanks
Chris
Hit up Hizzie, he is pretty much the Ruger revolver AIWB dude on P-F
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
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