I'd like to plug Claude Werner's "Negative Outcomes" CD... This thread seems like a great way to add examples to the second volume. (semi-tongue in cheek on second sentence)
The ability to operate a weapon without the discipline and knowledge to do it safely is inviting a negative outcome.
Last edited by warpedcamshaft; 03-03-2016 at 12:25 AM.
Before I take a noob to the range I spend about an hour going over the 4 safety rules and bust out the blue gun to show them grip, stance, etc.
I took my girlfriend's 4 year old son to a miniature golf course for his first time. Handed him a club and told him to have at it. I'm not seeing the parallels.
Last edited by HopetonBrown; 03-03-2016 at 01:02 AM.
To be fair to Rob, and to play devil's advocate here:
It was a news reporter telling a possibly sensationalized story about overcoming a fear she had at an area without a giant clock on the wall.
My first flight lesson probably actually had 20 minutes of explanation outside of the plane while we were checking the plane over, and then 10 minutes inside the plane before we started it up, but all I remember is that on my very first flight lesson, I actually started the plane, maneuvered into position and took off by myself while the instructor was just telling me what to do.
Flying is certainly dangerous, and I probably had way more safety training than I remember, and in a one on one setting, I probably wasn't in as much risk as I realized...
Yet, my whole memory was:
"I had never flown a plane and I was flying within five minutes".
My subjective experience was probably far different than what actually happened, much like the reporter's subjective experience may be far different than what actually happened.
While there's a lot of Pincus hate being thrown around for other reasons, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on safety. I've taken 3 classes from Pincus (Combat Focus Shooting, Advanced Pistol Handling and Combat Focus Shooting Instructor) and I strongly disagree with a lot of his methodology...having been through his courses. However, all three of his courses had a 30-40 minute safety brief which entailed far more information than most classes I've taken. Rules and roles were well established, emergency plans were all covered, medical response plan was covered, emergency gear was discussed and pointed out. It was far better and more detailed than classes I've had from other instructors who are far more famous on this website. The closest safety briefing I've had to his was probably Todd Green's, which was also pretty respectable.
Having watched Pincus perform a safety briefing 3 separate times that were very lengthy, and given that he doesn't state the "shooting within 5 minutes" thing, and that it is a reporter's subjective account, I'm gonna give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
Thank you.Originally Posted by Andy in NH
I tend to differentiate between exposure and teaching.
I consider myself plenty qualified to take someone to the range for the first time and expose someone to shooting. In this case, the person gets the 5-10 minute briefing and then my undivided attention any time they are touching the gun. As long as it's not dangerous or otherwise likely to seriously detract from the experience, I'm OK with reasonably poor form (grip, stance, trigger, sights). Because they have my undivided attention, I can immediately respond to safety violations and give them little tips as they go along.
The more formal teaching/training deserves legitimate, long-form safety and mechanics discussions. I'm wholly unqualified to do this and I make that clear to any friends who want to learn more.
In this particular bit, I saw a professional instructor exposing the reporter to firearms and firearms training. Under the circumstances, meh. On the face of it, I'm not sure I have any philosophical problems here.
Cheers,
David
The only issue I have with the above is....what is the student taking away? What was their impressions leaving the session? While the intent may be exposure, the result is often a feeling of education and training. Maybe the intent was simply exposure, but like the reporter in the story, the result was "special forces". It is why I really don't do "exposure" stuff anymore. You want me to "show you how to shoot".....you are taking our one day class. Heck, my kid was required to sit through our safety lecture in class to ensure she got more than what I had already given her, and she will be doing the full class in June. Again, age and curmudgeon, but I just no longer half ass any of this stuff as I don't ever want someone I had the opportunity to influence to be involved in a tragedy. I think a ton of folks have just enough exposure to get themselves into a ton of trouble. I don't want to be that exposure.
Last edited by Dagga Boy; 03-03-2016 at 12:44 PM.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
My analogy to golf had nothing to do with the safety required to operate a handgun but everything to do with hitting the newbie with a firehose of information.
Don't drown the person. Get them the very basics to get them shooting and then build on that. Pointing a gun in a safe direction and keeping the finger off the trigger when they are not shooting is all they need to get started. When the part about drawing, holstering, moving, etc. comes along...build on it.
-Seconds Count. Misses Don't-
As a PGA Professional I can tell you "experienced" friends who are golfers give me plenty of business. It's always funny when students come to me and 15 minutes in they can't believe how much easier I have made the learning process for them. One of the reasons is I don't bombard them with 50 different swing thoughts. Another factor is I don't need to give them 50 different swing thoughts because I know what they need to fix.
Rule of thumb in life. Spend time on the important stuff.
Safety is the most important thing with firearms.
That's my $.02.
God Bless,
Brandon
ETA: By the way, like somebody else said. Take new gun owners out and show them when they have time. When do you not have more than five minutes? It's better to take time and teach it right versus un-learning bad habits later.
Last edited by BWT; 03-03-2016 at 06:45 PM.
Yeah, golf and guns doesn't seem a fair comparison.
Granted too much rambling on the basics can result in an overload and lack of knowledge being retained, but safety with firearms demands more than a crash course, unless you're in a SHTF situation.
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