General setup info for 300 blk sbr with suppressor

[Josh Runkle]

The last time I heard people calling the ATF for "clarification" they lost the ability to shoulder their Sig arm brace.

Im not saying this is the same thing, but I'd be hesitant to call the ATF and ask them to make "clarifications" to the existing laws and regs.

Just thinking out loud...

:-)

In the example you give, BATFE had explained, in writing why the Sig arm brace configuration was ok. People said, "But, the law says this. Can you clarify why you're saying it's ok?" And then they reversed position to come into alignment with the law.

In this case, there are already positions on 5320.20 and interstate travel. You aren't asking BATFE "why" they allow what they do, or if, in fact it is in alignment with the law. You're just asking how something works, and what the existing policy is (because they change all the time).

It's not at all the same type of "clarification". People call the NFA branch all day long M-F, 8-5. I've seriously called like at least 50 times.

For example: once I made a DD on a form 1 from a flare gun. I was supposed to put the "original manufacturer of the firearm" on the form. Well, is that me, since a flare gun is not regulated as a title I or II gun and I would be the first person making it a title II gun, or do they still want the original manufacturer of the device in that place?

You can no longer put "multi" as a caliber on an SBR, but you can "temporarily" swap uppers and calibers. If you install a device in the magwell to take a different caliber's magazine, does that constitute a "permanent" change, and would I need to send ATF a letter informing them of the "permanent" change of caliber, or is that still just "temporary"?

They get questions on stuff all day long, and they are not earth shattering and have relatively little effect, and are not similar to the Sig pistol brace case.

When you eat leftovers out of your Mom's fridge during a visit home...that's when it's "better to ask forgiveness than permission". When you're facing the long dick of the law is not the time.

My understanding is that it is not Kosher. I have called the NFA branch and asked this specific question myself, about 7-8 years ago. They could easily have changed their position. My point isn't that I'm right and someone else is wrong, my point is that there is a place where you can get the information directly, and that should not be a buddy or the Internet. Call NFA directly.

[Josh Runkle]

Also: if you have time, it's always better to write them, and have them respond back in writing, rather than just calling. That way you have a piece of evidence as to why you did what you did.

[punkey71]

They have issued their opinion, in writing, in 2007.

The letter was to a Mr. Wade Bailey. I cant attach the entire letter but here is the relevant paragraph. Google it and you'll find his letter, I'm sure.

Between an existing letter, my NFA attorney and Hansohn Brothers (a dealer of ATF items), I'm confident I have the relevant information and clarification for my comfort.

By all means, do your own due diligence if you feel a new letter is needed. If a new letter IS needed, what value does the new letter have if the old one from 2007 is no longer valid?

Respectfully,
Harold

[Josh Runkle]

They have issued their opinion, in writing, in 2007.

The letter was to a Mr. Wade Bailey. I cant attach the entire letter but here is the relevant paragraph. Google it and you'll find his letter, I'm sure.

Between an existing letter, my NFA attorney and Hansohn Brothers (a dealer of ATF items), I'm confident I have the relevant information and clarification for my comfort.

By all means, do your own due diligence if you feel a new letter is needed. If a new letter IS needed, what value does the new letter have if the old one from 2007 is no longer valid?

Respectfully,
Harold

Respectfully, (again, I'm not a lawyer) my understanding is that opinion letters from the ATF only hold up in court for the person that the letter was addressed to, and the opinion only applies to the person whom it was addressed to. The ATF writes conflicting information all of the time. Letters like these are not press releases or official rulings, and have no bearing on the public. I could almost guarantee that given enough time and money, we could track down a letter from the same branch from the same time period with an opposing viewpoint.

Respectfully, your business is your business. My advice is just simply to get your information directly from the source, rather than from the Internet. It takes like 5 minutes to call. You write down the name of the person you spoke with and you have a record of the phone call on your phone bill. You have a decent defense in court. You can still be arrested by people ignorant of the law. You might still have to give a defense of yourself. Ignorance of the law is not a sufficient defense. And, what happens when your source material is a private opinion letter to someone else and some posters on the internet?

The best source stated so far is your attorney. I would assume that your attorney has taken it upon their self to contact the ATF in writing, have an example of case law on hand, or the ability to cite a relevant statute. If not, find a different one.

[Mike C]

There are a few things I've learned during my employment with Uncle Sam: 1. everything is subject to change, 2. you will not likely be put on notice, if you are it still won't save you from taking the giant green weeny, 3. ignorance is no excuse. I think I will call and write regardless of perception or opinion. I do appreciate some of the sound advice about having it in writing for myself.

[BWT]

How accurate is this statement? It is my understanding that you must notify ATF and have appropriate paperwork in order to go out of state with said registered SBR or suppressor. BWT are you just talking in terms of issues with states that do not allow SBR's? I am asking because I am really contemplating registering 2 rifles of mine at this time and would love to be able to just drop a different upper on and go out of state to a class without dealing with a bunch of garbage.

SBRs are legally defined by their condition. You can swap uppers and keep it in non-NFA configuration, and not be subject to NFA restrictions such as filing a 5320.

Suppressors and AOWs do not require a 5320; IIRC. ETA: Everything else is subject to normal NFA procedures such as a 5320.20 across state lines.

God Bless,

Brandon

Years ago a manufacturer was selling Pre-registered SBR's that all stopped I believe because there wasn't an upper that kept the rifle in conditions that would be subject to NFA.

[Josh Runkle]

Years ago a manufacturer was selling Pre-registered SBR's that all stopped I believe because there wasn't an upper that kept the rifle in conditions that would be subject to NFA.

Class II's are subject to entirely different regulations. It sounds like a case similar to what happened to Stag Arms, which was just simple non-compliance with the law.

[BWT]

Class II's are subject to entirely different regulations. It sounds like a case similar to what happened to Stag Arms, which was just simple non-compliance with the law.

Potentially. The scuttle bud (correct word?) was when people were filing Form 4's and giving measurements to the ATF and the ATF learned there was no upper; they said it wasn't subject to NFA because there wasn't an upper with the gun that would subject the gun to NFA. Machine guns are machine guns regardless of condition (even just a sear or lower); people sometimes assume it's the same with SBR's and it's not.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: The only reason I'm mentioning that is to further indicate there is a history of SBR's not in SBR configuration not being considered SBR's by the ATF.

[Drang]

scuttle bud

Scuttlebutt

1a : a cask on shipboard to contain freshwater for a day's use
b : a drinking fountain on a ship or at a naval or marine installation
2 : rumor, gossip

Definitions 1 a&b are the source of definition 2.

/sidetrack