LittleLebowski's big inspirational chainsaw thread

[jeep45238]

Okay, so we are gonna blame @LittleLebowski for this one...

Several posts back, LL asked about the MS 500i. This saw was nowhere on my radar before that post. Fast forward to now, I have spent a whole bunch of time looking at youtube vids and reading reviews and commentary on this saw as compared to the 661 (just ask my wife). This morning I finally sat down and charted the critical specs on my current MS 390, the 462 that everyone seems to love, the 500i, and the 661. Lo and behold, the 390 and 462 weigh the same and put out the same 4.4 bhp. The 500i comes in right at the same weight (a hair under 14 pounds) but puts out 6.7 bhp. The 661 is about three pounds heavier and only gains 1/2 a bhp for that three pounds. The juice really isn’t worth the squeeze for the 661, which is also priced the same as the 500i. Notably, I cannot find one video where the 500i is bogging the powerhead, even with a 36” bar straight up buried in wood. Everyone comments on how much torque the 500i produces. And then you have the fuel injection/computer system that is constantly optimizing for the type of cutting that is going on (limbing vs. bucking for instance) and external conditions such as a ported muffler or temp changes. The “new” fuel injection scared me off at first, but this saw has been out in Europe for at least a couple of years at this point, and has been used in concrete saws here in the states for a while. It really isn’t new tech; it’s just new to us.

The challenge may be actually finding one to buy. I’m heading to Virginia in a couple weeks and have four Stihl dealers I can hit there. (I plan to be living in VA full time pretty soon and want to start making connections with local outfits there.)

So there you go. Hopefully I can grab up one of these. My plan is to throw a ported muffler and a high end 36” bar, probably with a skip tooth chain and call it good. Then I’m going to back to my neighbor’s place and use the 500i to cut some cookies off the big ol’ stumps we left this past weekend for use as tabletops on the porch and fire pits. LL, this is all on you brother...

So, I'll break it down as someone who has a 661cm and a 462cm (and 362, 261, and the battery saws). Take the MS390 and put it in the corner - it doesn't crank the RPM's that the 462 does, which is what makes chips. Pro saws only from here forward.

The 661 has way, way more grunt on the long bars than my 462. My 462 will hang if it's running a skip tooth, sharp chain, but once it dulls slightly, the 661 walks away from it when it's running a full comp chain. The 661 lives with a 32" bar on it - if I need more than that, I rent the 088 with a 40+ inch bar, which has been exactly once in 10 years (SW Ohio).

The 462 gets to the same full RPM as the 500i in .025 seconds more time. The 500i walks the 462 if the bar is buried, it has more torque and horse power up top. The 462 has more low end, but after the midpoint in power, the 500i takes over. If you aren't running the maximum bar length on both saws and actually burying the bars constantly, you're not likely to notice the difference.

From a daily op side of things, the 500i and 661 lacks air filtration going to the air filter, the 462 has it. I knock out the air filter on my 661 a couple times a day, maybe a couple times a month on the 462, and the 462/362261 saws get way more time than the 661.


I'm holding off on the 500i for three reasons.
1) Never buy the first model year of anything - even a re-application of an existing power plant. Applications matter
2) No air filtration, and owning a 661cm. If I truly do need bigger than a mid 30" bar, I can rent an 088 with a 6 foot bar for $100 a day.
3) It offers minimal gains over the 462 for me - as I also own a 661.




A 500i with a muffler mod and square grind chain is kind of stupid - and I want one. But in my situation, it just isn't justifiable.

[Tensaw]

You misread the specs on the 390 vs. 462.. the 390 is 4.4BHP and the 462 is 5.9BHP...(but 4.4KW) The 462 is a significant improvement over the 390 and worth every dime. The 661 is 7.2BHP which is a big jump over the 462. I really like the new 462, especially with the light bar.

I need to read up on the 500I's programming and would be hesitant to mess with the exhaust. I know on my fuel injected 2 stroke snowmobile, going to an aftermarket exhaust caused me to actually lose power. It will be interesting to see when someone tests it.

Dang! Thank you for pointing out my mistake on the 390 specs. That was really not making sense to me in a few ways. And to your point, dudes seem to love the 462. Now that you have cleared that up, I am going to circle back for another look at the 462, while still leaning toward the 500i/661.

Re: loss of power from goofing with the saw. Based on reading at the opeforum and arboristsite, I’ve come away with the impression that the 500i will adjust to accommodate a more free flowing muffler - and gain some power while doing so. As well as fine tuning things while you are in the cut so to speak - so both “gross” and “fine” adjustments. I have no plans to have mine ported, but here is one video comparing a stock 500i to a ported 500i showing some apparent gains with the porting. https://youtu.be/g1fTXc-YJ8E I have to think that if the saw will adust to porting, it will adjust to a muffler, yes?

[Tensaw]

So, I'll break it down as someone who has a 661cm and a 462cm (and 362, 261, and the battery saws). Take the MS390 and put it in the corner - it doesn't crank the RPM's that the 462 does, which is what makes chips. Pro saws only from here forward.
Yeah, the 390 will end up either sitting in the corner or being sold off.

The 661 has way, way more grunt on the long bars than my 462. My 462 will hang if it's running a skip tooth, sharp chain, but once it dulls slightly, the 661 walks away from it when it's running a full comp chain. The 661 lives with a 32" bar on it - if I need more than that, I rent the 088 with a 40+ inch bar, which has been exactly once in 10 years (SW Ohio).

The 462 gets to the same full RPM as the 500i in .025 seconds more time. The 500i walks the 462 if the bar is buried, it has more torque and horse power up top. The 462 has more low end, but after the midpoint in power, the 500i takes over. If you aren't running the maximum bar length on both saws and actually burying the bars constantly, you're not likely to notice the difference.
One of my main applications for the new saw would be to handle the very occasional big wood that can justify a 36” (or maybe a 32” bar) - hence my initial attraction to the 661. But with the weight of the 500i being comparable to the 390/462, it would probably see wider use than the 661.

From a daily op side of things, the 500i and 661 lacks air filtration going to the air filter, the 462 has it. I knock out the air filter on my 661 a couple times a day, maybe a couple times a month on the 462, and the 462/362261 saws get way more time than the 661. I am absolutely tracking with you on this. For my uses, I can accommodate and work around this since I am probably not running the saw more than one day per month - if that. One comment I read stated that the same system in the 500i is used in a Stihl concrete saw (TS500 or 450 maybe?) which really challenged the filtration system given the fine dust that application produces. All that said, there is this: https://youtu.be/H0LYA17kn-M . Not saying I would run one that way, or that it would be good for the saw over the long haul, but the saw did keep working in pretty abhorrent shape.


I'm holding off on the 500i for three reasons.
1) Never buy the first model year of anything - even a re-application of an existing power plant. Applications matter
2) No air filtration, and owning a 661cm. If I truly do need bigger than a mid 30" bar, I can rent an 088 with a 6 foot bar for $100 a day.
3) It offers minimal gains over the 462 for me - as I also own a 661.
I am with you on all this. However, the 500i has been out for at least a couple of years now in Europe and somewhat available for the past year in the U.S. And ultimately, the question, for me, becomes which saw to get amongst the 462, 500i, and 661? If you could only have one.... that is where I find myself. As noted above, I will be taking another look at the 462

A 500i with a muffler mod and square grind chain is kind of stupid - and I want one. But in my situation, it just isn't justifiable.

Thanks to both you and AKDoug for straightening some things out and giving me more to chew on! Great stuff!

[jeep45238]

Thanks to both you and AKDoug for straightening some things out and giving me more to chew on! Great stuff!
One of my main applications for the new saw would be to handle the very occasional big wood that can justify a 36” (or maybe a 32” bar) - hence my initial attraction to the 661. But with the weight of the 500i being comparable to the 390/462, it would probably see wider use than the 661.

For my uses, I can accommodate and work around this since I am probably not running the saw more than one day per month - if that. One comment I read stated that the same system in the 500i is used in a Stihl concrete saw (TS500 or 450 maybe?) which really challenged the filtration system given the fine dust that application produces. All that said, there is this: https://youtu.be/H0LYA17kn-M . Not saying I would run one that way, or that it would be good for the saw over the long haul, but the saw did keep working in pretty abhorrent shape.

I am with you on all this. However, the 500i has been out for at least a couple of years now in Europe and somewhat available for the past year in the U.S. And ultimately, the question, for me, becomes which saw to get amongst the 462, 500i, and 661? If you could only have one.... that is where I find myself. As noted above, I will be taking another look at the 462

I still wouldn't be running a 500i for a couple years, even if it's been out in Europe for a year or two and one in the states. The distribution isn't widespread, and fuel differences across countries can matter. A look back to Ford's 6.0 diesel initial problems with American diesel fuel vs. Europe's low sulfur diesel fuel and the complications that created that included changing American fuel standards is a good example.

Keep in mind if the saws aren't in wide distribution, techs with experience with them, and the parts, aren't widespread either.

So, the filtering side of things - https://www.stihl.com/chain-saws-fun...principle.aspx Basically the cooling fan is also the source of air (but they haven't figured out how to implement it on the big Stihls yet - 500i, 661, 880). The centrifugal motion of the air sends the large particulates to the outer part of the case, and the air going to the filter has a lot less crud than it does on the 661/500i. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but over time you spend less money and downtime on filter cleanings/swaps, and you have a lot less fines under the filter as well. You'll find this feature on Stihl pro rear handle saws from the 261 up to 462.

I personally run the lightest saw that will effectively do the job. An echo 2511T with a 1/4 /043 Stihl chain conversion, 261 with a 16" full chisel, and the 462 with the 25" lightweight bar and full chisel chain are my two stroke go to saws. I run the snot out of battery saws as often as possible as well. The 462 will pull a 32" skip chain perfectly fine, and a full comp in softwood just fine as well - but it is much harder on the saw than the 661, and the oiler is more capable on the 661. Burying the bar also eats fluids up, and the 661 has much larger tanks for a reason.



That said - for a one day a month deal, with legitimately needing a 36" bar to cut material at least that large, I would grab a 661 and put a wrap handle on it, grab a standard bar and a lightweight bar, and the needed accessories to keep it going. It's proven, it has a wide supply of parts and tech support/knowledge, and the wrap handle makes it way more user friendly for me. For the cost of the 500i you'll get a fully kitted 661 with synthetic mix oil, and probably have the money left over for a set of chaps.

[Cookie Monster]

500i vs 661 - I think if you need a saw to run all the time then 500i. If you are looking for a saw for just big wood or want to run 404 chain or are just bucking up endless rounds of firewood (saw spends all day supported by the wood and your hip) then 661.

I've been looking at picking up a 661 this year but the 500i has turned my head a little. I gotta see how budget stuff goes.

But since this is the default work glove thread:



Left Pair - Geier Glove Company - 748 American Bison Leather - USA Made in Centralia WA

Right Pair - Geier Glove Company - 441 Rough Out Elkskin Suede - USA Made in Centralia WA

Fuck those big box store gloves.

[cornstalker]

Well, the Mtronic continues to excel at high altitude. Calibrates fine and runs great.

I am going to consider getting an MS462C-M with a 25" bar. It would save us a lot of time on the bigger stuff. Besides, I can't look at the MS261C-M the same now that @Cookie Monster called it a girl's saw...

I couldn't keep the MS251 Wood Boss running today. We had to take turns with the 261.

[Wyoming Shooter]

This guy did a nice review of lithium battery chain saws: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aBZt8m1XkQ. His other reviews are very well done also.

[Cookie Monster]

Well, the Mtronic continues to excel at high altitude. Calibrates fine and runs great.

I am going to consider getting an MS462C-M with a 25" bar. It would save us a lot of time on the bigger stuff. Besides, I can't look at the MS261C-M the same now that @Cookie Monster called it a girl's saw...

I couldn't keep the MS251 Wood Boss running today. We had to take turns with the 261.

Once you put a sharp chain and a big saw in some wood especially the endless bucking with firewood, it will be hard to grab a little saw again. A few years ago, all I had was 362s and the small woman in my crew complained and I found much better use and less fear with the smaller saw. I actually limbed up a tree last week with a 261 after I flooded the 461 and didn’t want to pull on the saw thirty times or clean a spark plug. Handy little thing.

I would try out a 28 or 32 inch bar on the 461. It’s not about needing to cut big wood but keeping the saw close and tucked into your hip and standing up while bucking. Go skip tooth on the 32z

[AKDoug]

Once you put a sharp chain and a big saw in some wood especially the endless bucking with firewood, it will be hard to grab a little saw again. A few years ago, all I had was 362s and the small woman in my crew complained and I found much better use and less fear with the smaller saw. I actually limbed up a tree last week with a 261 after I flooded the 461 and didn’t want to pull on the saw thirty times or clean a spark plug. Handy little thing.

I would try out a 28 or 32 inch bar on the 461. It’s not about needing to cut big wood but keeping the saw close and tucked into your hip and standing up while bucking. Go skip tooth on the 32z

My favorite saw in small wood is actually a 241C-M. They punch way above their weight class. Handy as Hell and I was majorly bummed when Stihl discontinued it. I converted mine to .325 chain from pico and it will pull it just fine. Most of the trees I buck are 12" or less so it's all about sizing the tool to the job. I ran my 461 on exactly one tree in 2020. There's actually one 241 left at another Stihl shop and I'm going to try and deal them out of it.

[OlongJohnson]

But since this is the default work glove thread:

Left Pair - Geier Glove Company - 748 American Bison Leather - USA Made in Centralia WA

Right Pair - Geier Glove Company - 441 Rough Out Elkskin Suede - USA Made in Centralia WA

Fuck those big box store gloves.

Might've said this a couple years ago, but I'm a fan of White Ox gloves. Got onto them when I ran a saw in construction north of Seattle. The logging supply shops in towns like Sedro-Woolley carried them and they were standard-issue at the place I worked. All the durability and protection of leather, but they don't get slimy when it rains and they don't harden after they get wet. You can do a bucket rinse to get the heavy mung out of them and then throw them in the laundry with work jeans, etc. every once in awhile to keep them sanitary.

http://www.northstarglove.com/products/3/20/14

I like the #1016.

Best price and availability for quantities under a case dozen online seems to be fleabay.