HK P30 - Revisited

[GardoneVT]

I have not found that at all.

I have been shooting a LEM for about a year and a half as my main gun. I don't get to shoot too many live rounds because of my personal schedule. Doing some dry fire on a nightly basis gives me a pretty dialed in trigger control. Which I proved under quantified and qualified scores at a Tom Givens class in October. In addition, I will occasionally bust out my P07, or my new TP9v2 (both DA/SA) and work with them, and have not yet had any glitch in doing so. On top of that, I just filmed a video where I did a timed and scored drill against Rob Leatham where we each had to shoot three different pistols in the same course of fire - a 1911, and two different XDs. So different trigger systems entirely, none of which I shoot - ever. I also had no warm up round or chance to even dry fire the guns. The result? I finished one place behind Leatham (the video will be free online in probably a month or two so anyone can verify). So in short, I have had no issue with going from a LEM to any other system. Maybe that is in part to having had nyeti give me some coaching tips on the LEM, but it was all verbal - he did it face to face when we didn't have a pistol available. So it's not like I had hundreds of hours of one on one coaching to get decent with the system. Just a bit of expert advice.

Some elaboration.

I never said LEM can't be used effectively. I simply stated that MY experience -as in, just me- is that maintaining performance with it required more frequent practice FOR ME compared to legacy DA/SA systems. I could very well be the only guy on Earth with that problem and LEM pistols.

But the OP asked for background, and that's mine. I know if I want to stay "good" at running LEM I have to practice VERY frequently compared to my 92. If I went too long between live fire sessions , I'd hit the line and reliably jerk the first 15 odd shots like clockwork until I got back into the groove. So long as I didn't go too long between live fire sessions i'd be OK. But no matter how often I dry fired , the problem remained.

I gave it six months where all I fired was the P30 LEM , since the only ammo available was .40 in winter 2012 and 9mm became harder to find then the truth in Chicago City Hall. The trigger snatch dynamic never changed. I picked up the 92 after not shooting it for that long and equaled my performance with the HK. Guess it just wasn't for me.

My only "issue" with LEM is that it's fundamentally unknown to me, where the DA/SA is not only familiar but appreciated. So, I'm not opposed to the LEM, but I'm looking for assurance that it's still a very viable trigger and still worth learning.

It seems like almost everyone on P-F prefers the LEM, and for that reason alone, I am considering one. I realize that what works for one may not work for another, but overall, we have a great collection of individuals here who's judgment and experience I value great deal.

I should stress that regardless of my experience, you need to try it out yourself. The system has solid merits as Nyeti eloquently summed up, among others. In many ways it is superior to both striker fired and DA/SA , and you'd be remiss to not at least demo it on the clock.

[GJM]

Some elaboration.

I never said LEM can't be used effectively. I simply stated that MY experience -as in, just me- is that maintaining performance with it required more frequent practice FOR ME compared to legacy DA/SA systems. I could very well be the only guy on Earth with that problem and LEM pistols.

But the OP asked for background, and that's mine. I know if I want to stay "good" at running LEM I have to practice VERY frequently compared to my 92. If I went too long between live fire sessions , I'd hit the line and reliably jerk the first 15 odd shots like clockwork until I got back into the groove. So long as I didn't go too long between live fire sessions i'd be OK. But no matter how often I dry fired , the problem remained.

I gave it six months where all I fired was the P30 LEM , since the only ammo available was .40 in winter 2012 and 9mm became harder to find then the truth in Chicago City Hall. The trigger snatch dynamic never changed. I picked up the 92 after not shooting it for that long and equaled my performance with the HK. Guess it just wasn't for me.

Gardone is no dummy.

[breakingtime91]

My only "issue" with LEM is that it's fundamentally unknown to me, where the DA/SA is not only familiar but appreciated. So, I'm not opposed to the LEM, but I'm looking for assurance that it's still a very viable trigger and still worth learning.

It seems like almost everyone on P-F prefers the LEM, and for that reason alone, I am considering one. I realize that what works for one may not work for another, but overall, we have a great collection of individuals here who's judgment and experience I value great deal.

I think thats the great thing about PF.com.. You get to see it from both views. This trigger system is not a gamer/fast trigger system. It just isnt that, which isn't a bad thing. It is in fact a trigger that is made to be carried. It is good at handling crisis situations, easy to manage (no decock), and gives you a long take up and a hammer to keep you safe and free. I will admit the first time I shot a lem (Secondscount came up to the range I shoot at and we had a hell of a time) I didn't like it. The take up was long and the reset was just to long compared to my glock 19! Then I got really thinking about what I needed in a carry gun... Was it a short reset or a trigger/system that lended itself to handling bad situations. 7 months later I have a p2000 (my work horse and a gun I still adore) and a p2sk that I carry all the time.

[breakingtime91]

Some elaboration.

I never said LEM can't be used effectively. I simply stated that MY experience -as in, just me- is that maintaining performance with it required more frequent practice FOR ME compared to legacy DA/SA systems. I could very well be the only guy on Earth with that problem and LEM pistols.

But the OP asked for background, and that's mine. I know if I want to stay "good" at running LEM I have to practice VERY frequently compared to my 92. If I went too long between live fire sessions , I'd hit the line and reliably jerk the first 15 odd shots like clockwork until I got back into the groove. So long as I didn't go too long between live fire sessions i'd be OK. But no matter how often I dry fired , the problem remained.

I gave it six months where all I fired was the P30 LEM , since the only ammo available was .40 in winter 2012 and 9mm became harder to find then the truth in Chicago City Hall. The trigger snatch dynamic never changed. I picked up the 92 after not shooting it for that long and equaled my performance with the HK. Guess it just wasn't for me.





I should stress that regardless of my experience, you need to try it out yourself. The system has solid merits as Nyeti eloquently summed up, among others. In many ways it is superior to both striker fired and DA/SA , and you'd be remiss to not at least demo it on the clock.

I mean this in the nicest way possible. Is it the fact that you just snatch the DA trigger press when u haven't practice in a long time and all the SA are good that you like DA/SA better? That was my tendency when shooting DA/SA. I shot the DA ok and the SA great so I thought all was well...

[LSP972]

What I mean specifically, is value in relation to comparable options is not my concern and cost is dead last on my list of things to consider, within reason of course. I'd love a Jason Burton 9mm Commander, but don't have $7,500 to pay for one. While the P30 is in fact more expensive than the PX4 or Sip Pro, I have no qualms paying the $900 for one (probably x2) if it in fact does what I need it to do.

We are on the same page.

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[GardoneVT]

I mean this in the nicest way possible. Is it the fact that you just snatch the DA trigger press when u haven't practice in a long time and all the SA are good that you like DA/SA better? That was my tendency when shooting DA/SA. I shot the DA ok and the SA great so I thought all was well...

Actually, I like DA/SA because it forces a deliberate trigger pull. With other systems the gun can be fired before the sight picture is acquired. I personally find that about as useful as a 1000HP weedwhacker. What's the point of being physically able to shoot faster if you don't know where the bullet's going?

With DA/SA, I find I can match the speed of the initial press alongside the sight acquisition. Close range, roll it faster with the sight picture. Long range, roll it slower in accordance with the increased precision necessary. With other systems it can psychologically "feel" like the gun's ready, you're ready, but you're "waiting" on the sight picture. Thus anticipation which results in "doh!" snatched shots.

Hope that makes sense. Insofar as misses go, if you don't live fire you're gonna suck regardless of what the gun's rollmark says.
I just sucked less with my 92 after a hiatus then the LEM.

[LSP972]

I spoke to a CBP armorer about the long wait time on broken P2000s, and apparently H&K does their own investigation on the weapon before they will release a repaired or replacement firearm. Obviously there are plenty of pistols in the inventory, but that long of a wait starts to become a headache for inventory logs and issuing out a new serialized pistol.

Yeah, I could see that.

Regarding the ammunition, the active BP guy that used to be on here quite a bit- and whom I exchanged many emails and photos with- stated that that the gun-busting stuff was still in inventory and still being used. Those conversations were in late 2013/early 2014; dunno what happened to the fellow, but I haven't seen him around here in some time.

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[breakingtime91]

Actually, I like DA/SA because it forces a deliberate trigger pull. With other systems the gun can be fired before the sight picture is acquired. I personally find that about as useful as a 1000HP weedwhacker. What's the point of being physically able to shoot faster if you don't know where the bullet's going?

With DA/SA, I find I can match the speed of the initial press alongside the sight acquisition. Close range, roll it faster with the sight picture. Long range, roll it slower in accordance with the increased precision necessary. With other systems it can psychologically "feel" like the gun's ready, you're ready, but you're "waiting" on the sight picture. Thus anticipation which results in "doh!" snatched shots.

Hope that makes sense. Insofar as misses go, if you don't live fire you're gonna suck regardless of what the gun's rollmark says.
I just sucked less with my 92 after a hiatus then the LEM.

I think were in agreement about pretty much everything. I just find that LEM accomplishes the same thing for ME. I think both are awesome systems, just matters on what fells better to the individual.

[StraitR]

Only speaking for me, but the P30 is much more difficult to detail strip and swap parts than any Glock. The only tools I need for a Glock are a punch, a pair of needle-nose pliers for the magazine catch spring, and a screwdriver for the front sight. I sure do not need to purchase a special set of pliers from Glock to detail strip a Glock. There are no small parts that one can damage in a Glock unless one is really inclined to be Bubba. The P30, on the other hand, is full of springs and pins, and the pins appear to be of different diameters and types.

And while I completely agree that noting trumps a Glock for ease of maintenance and logistics, but that is not my main priority at this point. I have a few Glocks and a tackle box full of spare parts if I'm ever forced into a position of total self sufficiency.

[LSP972]

I'm looking for assurance that it's still a very viable trigger and still worth learning.

It is.

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