Pistol Caliber Carbine

[Talionis]

You didn't mention Carry Optics?

Good point! We actually had a whopping 4 people turn out for CO at the match, which is 3 more than I am used to seeing. The top CO shooter has been making some pretty big improvements recently, and managed a 15th finish in the low-cap match. (Don't read that as insulting CO, it just isn't a very good data point)

[GJM]

Good point! We actually had a whopping 4 people turn out for CO at the match, which is 3 more than I am used to seeing. The top CO shooter has been making some pretty big improvements recently, and managed a 15th finish in the low-cap match. (Don't read that as insulting CO, it just isn't a very good data point)

I shot my first CO match Saturday, and it is the most fun I recall at a match in a while. Around here it seems like CO grows each month by one or two shooters, and most are coming out of Production or other low cap divisions. A bunch more shooters have guns in the works, for future participation. Kind of fun running my Glock 19 MOS up with the open shooters.

[Josh Runkle]

I frankly wish that shooting sports focused less on creating an even playing field and more on creating an even gun community.

I'd rather see the message be: "well, you're in one of the 9 states where the government is retarded and put you at a disadvantage that 41 other states did not."

I hate that I can avoid states like California and Illinois all day long, but their reach into f*cking the gun community extends beyond their state. I don't like that the shooting community tolerates this.

The standard answer should be: your state places you at a disadvantage. Sorry. Get pissed at your state, not us.

Correction: the ratio is now 8 to 42. Congratulations Iowans.

[rob_s]

So the Practical Pistol Show addressed this in a recent show.

The issues they raised, as I see it, were twofold, with the second issue having two sub-sets
(1) Focusing on PCC distracts the BOD from other more important issues like "making USPSA better" ("better", as defined by the PPS crew)
(2) The pistol stages don't work for PCC
(2a) pistol stages aren't challenging enough for PCC which makes PCC a hose-fest and therefore "gay"
(2b) pistol stages will have to change to accommodate PCC strictly from a practical standpoint

Personally, I find (1) to be a red herring. First, what the PPS guys think is "better" isn't, to me, actually better for the B/C guys that both make up and provide the labor for USPSA.

(2) in generally largely falls into the "sky is falling" and "don't change my beer" mentality that seems to be the core of the resistance to PCC. I think it's kind of funny that so many of the game's "young guns" are already curmudgeonly about change. I get a lot of "it will change the game" arguments without a lot of substance or examples of how. What they really seem to be saying is "I'm afraid it will change the game but I have no actual reason for thinking that or examples of how".

(2a) is interesting to me. Basically, the argument is that USPSA should be providing "best in class service", and to do that the stages should be challenging to the shooters, otherwise it shouldn't be part of USPSA. I can agree with this somewhat, but I think you let the market decide that.

(2b) was a case where they really couldn't offer any examples. Les pressed them, and eventually they said "you can't shoot a PCC one-handed" and "you can't shoot low port with a PCC without going prone". I find both arguments to be nonsense and indicative of a lack of experience with carbines on the part of those making the arguments. The one-handed thing may be part of the provisional rules, and if it is then it shouldn't be, that's stupid. People shoot carbines, especially PCC, one-handed all the time. The "can't do low port" thing just showcases the ignorance of carbines on the part of many pistol-only USPSA shooters.

[Luke]

I just don't want it to happen because it will cost me money. And if it took this much work to get what little skill I have.. I can only imagine trying to progress with a rifle lol

[GJM]

I was at a match yesterday, where someone in my squad was shooting PCC. I was very impressed by how much easier it was to shoot fast, accurate shots with the PCC. A carbine using Glock magazines would be an interesting home defense firearm, especially for a Glock handgun shooter.

[El Cid]

I was at a match yesterday, where someone in my squad was shooting PCC. I was very impressed by how much easier it was to shoot fast, accurate shots with the PCC. A carbine using Glock magazines would be an interesting home defense firearm, especially for a Glock handgun shooter.

Agreed about the speed. I used to watch Rob_S and a few others at a local steel match. A 9mm AR or similar is very handy. I have toyed off and on over the years with buying one so I can get the repetition of running an AR at steel matches.

[mmc45414]

I was at a match yesterday, where someone in my squad was shooting PCC. I was very impressed by how much easier it was to shoot fast, accurate shots with the PCC. A carbine using Glock magazines would be an interesting home defense firearm, especially for a Glock handgun shooter.

I have one that I have been bringing out when our little group shoots pistol scenarios and we ussualy run through one with the 9mmAR. Today at least I smoked my pistol time.

Also, the 16" gun gains about 300fps.

[GJM]

Shot a JP GMR-13 this afternoon. Great shooter, way faster cycling than my Colt 9mm. Look forward to shooting some PCC with this.

[Luke]

Shot a colt mag PCC today on some short stages I was practicing on. It was fun, but was semi underwhelmed. In my mind the stars would align and I'd just rip around like a GM open shooter. My times were basically the same for pistol, I'm guessing on far shots is where the PCC shines. It was fun, and I'd love to run one in a match, but didn't meet my full expectations.


Of course I came home and looked at 9mm lowers online.