NJ Charges Out-of-State LEO With Felony for Having His Legal Gun With Him

[Dagga Boy]

LEOSA was amended to specifically include ammunition. If you're afraid that isn't strong enough, then you shouldn't be carrying a gun in NJ either since you're relying on the same law to allow you to do such.

Dude, stop with your super salty LE status. As some of us who have been traveling to other states as polices officers for decades (in Wayne's case that would be in neighborhood of over three decades, including a multi year stint in the middle East), we have concluded some things are not worth pushing. I just flew to San Francisco, for SFPD specifically to provide training for their officers. I was told specifically, don't bring Federal Hollowpoints....which is the ammunition issued by my former agency, and the stuff in my guns is agency issued ammunition. I carried Black Hills. I was told the DA could care less about LEOSA and they would likely make my life hell over Federal HST if I got into a shooting there. In California, I could actually legal carry my old issue mags....I don't. This has nothing to do with a fear of the law being strong enough, this is a case of not trusting local municipalities to give a flying crap about Federal Law. This is simple...when traveling to a sanctuary city, do you really want to depend of their respect of the letter of Federal Law? Some of these are issues of later additions to LEOSA. This is simple...don't make issues that do not need to be. Your run of the mill average LEO, even a non gun person knows out of jurisdiction and retired LEO's can carry, most don't know about nuances. Most NJ cops of any jurisdiction know about their hollow point law. I would venture, most don't know about how it applies to LEOSA.

[TGS]

I know it was amended to include ammo, but their Attorney General has rendered opinions since that hollowpoint ammo is still verboten in the Reich of NJ under LEOSA. I don't want to be a test case there.

I guess I have more faith in federal preemption as granted by Article VI of the US Constitution than some jackwad's personal opinion on what he can charge people with.

Not that I think spending a night in jail and going through trial would be a cheerful experience, but I'd be pretty comfortable with the chances of me winning that fight and coming out ahead.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Dude, stop with your super salty LE status. As some of us who have been traveling to other states as polices officers for decades (in Wayne's case that would be in neighborhood of over three decades, including a multi year stint in the middle East), we have concluded some things are not worth pushing. I just flew to San Francisco, for SFPD specifically to provide training for their officers. I was told specifically, don't bring Federal Hollowpoints....which is the ammunition issued by my former agency, and the stuff in my guns is agency issued ammunition. I carried Black Hills. I was told the DA could care less about LEOSA and they would likely make my life hell over Federal HST if I got into a shooting there. In California, I could actually legal carry my old issue mags....I don't. This has nothing to do with a fear of the law being strong enough, this is a case of not trusting local municipalities to give a flying crap about Federal Law. This is simple...when traveling to a sanctuary city, do you really want to depend of their respect of the letter of Federal Law? Some of these are issues of later additions to LEOSA. This is simple...don't make issues that do not need to be. Your run of the mill average LEO, even a non gun person knows out of jurisdiction and retired LEO's can carry, most don't know about nuances. Most NJ cops of any jurisdiction know about their hollow point law. I would venture, most don't know about how it applies to LEOSA.

It costs less to listen to nyeti than it does to pay the lawyers to fix the problem.

(Not that I'm against attorney employment, mind you...I'm just saying you don't HAVE to be the guy writing the check. Unless you want to be...)

[TGS]

It costs less to listen to nyeti than it does to pay the lawyers to fix the problem.

(Not that I'm against attorney employment, mind you...I'm just saying you don't HAVE to be the guy writing the check. Unless you want to be...)

Well, how comfortable would you be in winning that fight?

I can't imagine the AG's remarks are anything but verbal bullying. He can't actually think it would ever fly enough to actually have the state bring someone to trial.

[SLG]

Well, how comfortable would you be in winning that fight?

I can't imagine the AG's remarks are anything but verbal bullying. He can't actually think it would ever fly enough to actually have the state bring someone to trial.

I am lucky that as of now, I can thumb my nose at those idiots in those other states. Once I retire, Nyeti and Wayne definitely have the right take on it. None of us want to spend 5 minutes in a cell to win a fight down the road. Having put a lot of people behind bars, it is the last place I want to be, for any reason.

[TGS]

I am lucky that as of now, I can thumb my nose at those idiots in those other states. Once I retire, Nyeti and Wayne definitely have the right take on it. None of us want to spend 5 minutes in a cell to win a fight down the road. Having put a lot of people behind bars, it is the last place I want to be, for any reason.

I get that, I really do.

I just don't understand the fear when the law is clearly established. I'm going to do what LL hates most and draw some correlation here.....but if Herr Attorney General said he was going to jail anyone who speaks out against the regime, would we also not speak out against the regime for fear of being prosecuted when 1) the law is clearly on our side, and 2) case law thus far on the issue has been overwhelmingly in the favor of the officer, re: a broad interpretation of the statute? Just because the AG said he didn't care about written law and was going to charge people anyway, carrying within the letter of the law doesn't come off as reckless, to me.

I'm not trying to be super salty LE here, either. I think that's a weak sauce low-blow thrown out here at me simply for having an opinion.

[Dagga Boy]

I am lucky that as of now, I can thumb my nose at those idiots in those other states. Once I retire, Nyeti and Wayne definitely have the right take on it. None of us want to spend 5 minutes in a cell to win a fight down the road. Having put a lot of people behind bars, it is the last place I want to be, for any reason.

Yeah, the whole "retirement" thing will change outlook. Like...it's your wallet paying. When I was working, traveling on work related stuff, I really didn't give a care about much. When your badge has a plaque under it with an end date....stuff changes. Also, Wayne and I travel a lot, are in contact with a ton of the kind of cops who will be responding to any call of you getting into an incident, and we generally speak their language. We still find "that guy". Every agency has one. With my luck, I will get both that guy, and his cousin the DA. Some day, some may also find that the same places that dislike federal law...don't have a lot of love for federal law enforcement, especially of the retired type where nobody is coming to rescue you.
As Mitchell esq. noted, I avoid interaction with lawyers. I have worked extensively with the best guys in the world at what they do. The guys I have in my phone in Texas are literally the best money can buy. I am cheap, I don't want to ever have to waste revolver money and my 401k to make a point where the option may piss me off, but is not worth the revolvers and the 401k to fight.
Also, as someone who doesn't "camp", any time in custody is not my idea of a good idea. Especially, if the issue is a Black Hills 230 gr. HP versus a Federal 230 gr. +p HST hollowpoint.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Well, how comfortable would you be in winning that fight?

I can't imagine the AG's remarks are anything but verbal bullying. He can't actually think it would ever fly enough to actually have the state bring someone to trial.

Question presented:

How confident would I be in winning a case for a client with the client being an active duty law enforcement officer ("LEO") as defined by 18 U.S.C.A. § 926B(c) with identification as defined by 18 U.S.C.A. § 926B(d) carrying a firearm as defined by 18 U.S.C.A. § 926B(e) (Ammunition is included in this definition, "(2) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act..." under 18 U.S.C.A. § 926B(e)(2)) arrested for a violation of a local law which has been preempted pursuant to 18 U.S.C.A. § 926B(a)?

Absent anything else? I'd be very confident.

However, $10,000 retainer minimum & a contingency fee agreement (percentage to be negotiated but because of the initial retainer, I'm not unreasonable...) because it's going to take me some time to address the underlying situation which resulted in the arrest (nothing is ever cut and dry...their is always a poop in the punch-bowl that will end up in your glass.) and then draft the federal 18 U.S.C.A. § 1983 action for an unlawful arrest.

Municipalities willing to make this kind of an arrest are going to fight this kind of thing, and you only get to do a 18 U.S.C.A. § 1983 case if you resolve the underlying criminal case in a manner which is termed a favorable disposition (either a not guilty, dismissal before trial or a nolle which is not the result of any bargaining) so it is a not insubstantial amount of work.

Would it be fun? Hell yes.

For me.

For you? What is your definition of fun?

Civil rights litigation is not easy. It is time consuming and expensive before we get to the $$ part.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Also, as someone who doesn't "camp", any time in custody is not my idea of a good idea. Especially, if the issue is a Black Hills 230 gr. HP versus a Federal 230 gr. +p HST hollowpoint.

I love you in a manly, hammer fired H&K way.

I actually address that kind of thing my my Self Defense & the Law lecture and tell people that you can do what you want with handloads, gun modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer or the common course of practice in the firearms industry - but every second I need to address that kind of thing in court (or prep for court) costs you money.

So in the end...

I bill (no, I don't get it as take home...) $250/hour.

Every six minutes I think about your case costs about $40.

You make the call.

[TGS]

I love you in a manly, hammer fired H&K way.

I actually address that kind of thing my my Self Defense & the Law lecture and tell people that you can do what you want with handloads, gun modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer or the common course of practice in the firearms industry - but every second I need to address that kind of thing in court (or prep for court) costs you money.

So in the end...

I bill (no, I don't get it as take home...) $250/hour.

Every six minutes I think about your case costs about $40.

You make the call.

Just curious........how much money do you think you'd be able to rape the state of NJ for if they arrested a LEO carrying hollow points? With that given amount in mind, would you take the case without money up front given the certainty of getting a big cash out at the end? How's that work?