San Francisco Two Bullet Rule

[SLG]

We all know this is silly, pushed by people who need help crossing the street safely.

However, it really isn't a problem, as there are plenty of reasonable ways to avoid the problems this idea creates.

[Gadfly]

Legally, the idea of any set number of rounds being unreasonable on its face should have been buried and forgotten after Plumhoff v. Rickard (570_US, 2013). Now, when an officer fires a third round for any number of reasons there may well be legal issues for the officer (first & foremost) and the agency over this.

I had to look up the case... But you are right, the SCOTUS decision was unanimous and clear.
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The justices also concluded that the officers did not fire more shots than necessary to end the public safety risk. As explained by the Court, it “stands to reason that, if police officers are justified in firing at a suspect in order to end a severe threat to public safety, the officers need not stop shooting until the threat has ended.”

[The Apprentice]

I feel bad for all you guys in law enforcement. This is what happens when bureaucrats sit around and ask how can we stop this from ever happening again. They are to arrogant to addmit that all the rules in the world cant because people are human and some make bad decisions.

[Hauptmann]

Who wants to bet that we will have some departments going back to revolvers in the near future?

[JV_]

There is a huge/growing number of people that think our LE should be taking hints from (unarmed) UK cops. I've lost count on the number of people who've said that we shouldn't be shooting aggressive people with knives, bats, etc. They want more of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznNf2LUk74

[AMC]

Hello, all. I discovered this Forum doing some research on the publicly available news/responses to this disaster. I'm interested because I'm affected. As in I work there....for the department in question. I've never been a member of an internet forum before, but it seems like there are some knowledgeable folks here, so.....It's actually much worse than that article makes it seem. Our new draft General Orders on Use-of-force and Firearms were submitted last week to our Police Commission. They are not approved yet, but they are already being taught at the Academy and the Range as if they were official policy. They are essentially cut-and-paste versions of the recommendations from the recent PERF report on Use-of-Force reforms. Our Chief has literally taken over and is dictating firearms training policy to the Range staff. Most strings of fire are actually ONE round at a time, then assess (usually 10-15 seconds). He is trying to ELIMINATE any use of the Failure Drill ("assassination"). There are NO TIME LIMITS past 7 yards on his new qual. In the last 2 years we've gone from a twice a year 50 round qual (absolutely no other firearms training), to a twice a year 37 round qual, to now Once a year 40 rounds. That qualification (70% passing, no time limits) is now followed by 8 hours of deescalation training and less-lethal training). Our union leadership is making angry sounds, and I've volunteered for our own Use-of-Force Committee, but our Union leadership are High School buddies of the chief, so....Anyway. I'm going to try to solicit outside expert opinions and responses to these policies for the Association to have on hand, which hopefully they will use.

[SLG]

AMC,

Welcome!

Move. :-)

Seriously, there are plenty of other departments out there, some of which actually want you to do well and retire healthy. Why stay with people who obviously don't care about you at all? I've lived and worked all over the country pretty much. Lots of nice places in America.

[Dagga Boy]

AMC...your union needs to quit doing whatever they are doing and focus on these issues. If they are so politicized that they won't do the hard work of votes of no confidence, lawsuits, etc. Then the board needs a vote of no confidence and replacement. If nobody gives a crap about fixing it, and just want to wait for some poor street copper to get fanged, then I would be looking hard to lateral to anywhere else. Heck, lateral to the sanitation department if you can't get out. The only way things will change is when they cannot get anyone to work as a cop there..the current ones don't work, and the citizens get the policing they deserve....which is none at this point.

[LtDave]

I would predict a massive decline in proactive policing in 3-2-1.... This is probably one of the worst decisions by a police administration regarding force and officer safety I can recall. Ever.

Additionally, while I am not familiar at all with the CA state mandated pistol qual for LE, I imagine it has strings longer than two shots. I wonder if these clowns will now require officers to execute this evaluative pause on the course in order to "train like they fight."

California has no standard or mandated qualification courses. Each agency sets their own. Causes some issues with Leosa quals for retired folks.

[Kyle Reese]

There is a huge/growing number of people that think our LE should be taking hints from (unarmed) UK cops. I've lost count on the number of people who've said that we shouldn't be shooting aggressive people with knives, bats, etc. They want more of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznNf2LUk74

Plenty of armed police in the UK, and they shoot perps armed with knives and other weapons.




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