Is Bad Instruction Better then No Instruction?

[GardoneVT]

I witnessed a case yesterday of an "instructor" who was propagating excessive derp.

Trouble was ,he's one of the few local instructors in the area , so most of his students would probably have opted out if they had to travel and spend additional funds going somewhere else.

Would it be better in the aggregate for a totally untrained person to handle guns and learn OTJ, versus taking a class from a total incompetent who leads them wrong ?

In an ideal world everyone could afford a spot in a Scott Reitz or Tom Givens class (to name two ) , but we don't live there.

[Gray222]

If you see an instructor derping out it is your duty, as "the informed student" to point out their errors.

I have left classes after pointing something out and being told I was wrong by the instructor, only for other students to leave later on.

We are all responsible for our ignorance and such responsibility does not end at your nose, it ends when everyone is informed and they can make choices for themselves.

Not speaking at/to you specifically, just pointing out my personal preference for such situations.

It is one thing to teach a way different way to do something, it is completely different when the way they are teaching is not only dangerous but irresponsible/unsafe.

[DacoRoman]

I witnessed a case yesterday of an "instructor" who was propagating excessive derp.

Trouble was ,he's one of the few local instructors in the area , so most of his students would probably have opted out if they had to travel and spend additional funds going somewhere else.

Would it be better in the aggregate for a totally untrained person to handle guns and learn OTJ, versus taking a class from a total incompetent who leads them wrong ?

In an ideal world everyone could afford a spot in a Scott Reitz or Tom Givens class (to name two ) , but we don't live there.

I would say it depends.

Assuming it is "tactical derp" (always potentially controversial and evolving), and it may not be 'cause you didn't specify, but If at least they are teaching good shooting fundamentals, solid safe handling, good grip, stance, sight and trigger management, draw, etc. then it is probably still worth it.

[HopetonBrown]

You'd have to be more specific.

[Ntexwheels]

Personally I've always looked at it from the stand point, 'is this going to leave the student with bad habits that could possibly get him/her or others hurt?'
If that's the case, I then attempt to bring it up and tactfully correct the wrong.

I do have to admit however, there have been a couple of times the so called instructor was such a butt head know it all that I flat out called them a butt head.

[LOKNLOD]

Define the derp. You may mean you saw an old guy teaching a new shooter something outdated, or you may mean they were trying to appendix speed-reholster their full-cocked Judge mid-ninjaroll. There's a derp spectrum and it's a bit subjective.

If it's not something directly hazardous to student or public life and limb, it's probably better to live and let derp.

At a point you interrupt a student getting paid instruction, you are just some nosy a-hole to the involved parties. It doesn't matter if you're 100% right and they're wrong, very few people appreciate unsolicited advice, and doubly so if it comes during an interruption to a paid session. Once you walk alway you're just that interloper that the both parties are going to talk about later.

"I'm tired of teaching at that range, some young feller keeps interrupting my classes to 'correct' me..." And "I had a good first class, except some dude interrupted to mansplain grip techniques to the instructor."

ETA: I also know some folks who could interrupt, effectively call both parties morons, and still get a thank-you card when it was over, and some who could interrupt with a glowing compliment and still get told to F-off afterwards. A lot of it is in the presentation...

[Kyle Reese]

Unless life, limb or eyesight are endangered, I tune out the derp and focus on my drills.


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[41magfan]

Unless life, limb or eyesight are endangered, I tune out the derp and focus on my drills.


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^^^^^ This ^^^^^

There's high school level derp and there is graduate level derp, but it can still be derp.

Embrace the stuff that's useful to you and discard the rest. To do otherwise makes you a fanboy, and the only thing worse than derp is a fanboy.

There's high school level fanboys and there is ..........

[VolGrad]

Unless life, limb or eyesight are endangered, I tune out the derp and focus on my drills.


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This.

Quite honestly the quick read answer would be to call someone out for teaching bad techniques. If you think about it though one really must evaluate whom is calling out whom. I mean I've been in a class where the know it all "that guy" student wouldn't shut the F up. He clearly thought he knew more than the instructor .... and he did NOT.

[HopetonBrown]

If I was instructing someone, and a guy came up to me and told me I was doing it wrong, I'd probably ask what his/her training/competitive background was. If he said that it was an NRA First Steps Pistol class and posting on internet gun forums a lot, I'd probably tell him to go pound sand.