How do you deal with commanders/top brass who are out of touch...?

[Chuck Haggard]

This question is the very story of my entire career

[voodoo_man]

This question is the very story of my entire career

I should write a book when I retire...

[Poconnor]

Write what really happened but call it fiction because nobody will believe they really said such dumb shit

[Hideeho]

Try converting statements into questions. Presenting your ideas as questions can seem less threatening. This is especially important in hierarchical organizations. Use the "5 whys" to dig deep into answers. Sometimes the a persons first response is not the true reason for their answer.

[voodoo_man]

Try converting statements into questions. Presenting your ideas as questions can seem less threatening. This is especially important in hierarchical organizations. Use the "5 whys" to dig deep into answers. Sometimes the a persons first response is not the true reason for their answer.

I have tried this approach, but when the commander doesnt know the answer or doesnt have the experience to answer correctly it becomes a shit show quick.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I had to have a discussion with a commander today in reference to how we work domestics, from start to finish, patrol officer to detective to court.

The commander in question has not been on the street since the early 90's and does not know the current way things are handled. His boss, who he will explaining this to was on the street for 2 years (in the early 80's), has been assigned to a desk since (after making rank a few times over).

It did not end well but will work out in the long run.

How do you deal with commanders who are out of touch with what street officers do on a daily basis? In reference to anything in particular, have you had any positive outcomes in reference to these types of conversations or arguments over policy or the right way to do something?

Are you friendly with anyone in the prosecutor's office who can write a memo to your agency with suggestions for best practices for police actions for successfully prosecutions?

That way your finger prints stay off the issue and it gets dropped on the administration from on high.

Would that work?

[voodoo_man]

Are you friendly with anyone in the prosecutor's office who can write a memo to your agency with suggestions for best practices for police actions for successfully prosecutions?

That way your finger prints stay off the issue and it gets dropped on the administration from on high.

Would that work?

I work for one of the largest PD's in the US, they simply do not care what anyone has to say, including the DA's office and/or the Feds.

There was a 140ish page document that was dropped on my PD as part of a fed investigation into our deadly force practices and we disregarded nearly all of them as a department.

Good idea though, if I ever get to a small town PD I'll definitely keep that in mind.

[KPD]

I had to have a discussion with a commander today in reference to how we work domestics, from start to finish, patrol officer to detective to court.

The commander in question has not been on the street since the early 90's and does not know the current way things are handled. His boss, who he will explaining this to was on the street for 2 years (in the early 80's), has been assigned to a desk since (after making rank a few times over).

It did not end well but will work out in the long run.

How do you deal with commanders who are out of touch with what street officers do on a daily basis? In reference to anything in particular, have you had any positive outcomes in reference to these types of conversations or arguments over policy or the right way to do something?

I was a command staff level supervisor in a 200+ sworn agency.
I thought I could institute some positive change and I was very wrong.

All you can do is follow the orders as long as they aren't illegal and point out the potential issues.

Do any more than that at your own peril. You cannot win these arguments.

[voodoo_man]

I was a command staff level supervisor in a 200+ sworn agency.
I thought I could institute some positive change and I was very wrong.

All you can do is follow the orders as long as they aren't illegal and point out the potential issues.

Do any more than that at your own peril. You cannot win these arguments.

I've heard very similar from command staff. Hell, I had a senior level top brass (stars on his shoulders) tell me "You cannot right the course of a ship this big, at the helm or not, it is too big for one person to change."

He is right of course, but the fact its institutional makes me cringe.

[imp1295]

I'm not LEO, but this sounds strikingly similar to the issues I've seen in the Army. Trying to change large, bureaucratic organizations is an effort in futility.

Every sub-par organization has their own motivations and interests and is not likely to compromis on much.

We see the same thing with GOFOs who have led a rifle platoon in thirty years and are more concerned with the impact of an insignificant event that has no bearing on actual war fighting but will make the 24 hour news cycle in a flash.

At 23 year's in I've realized the only thing I can try to do is make my unit the best I can, shield them from as much BS as possible and take solace in the fact that that loyalty will be returned when it counts the most.

Look up some information on "Homo-Bureacrticus". We spent about 5 weeks here studying organizational culture and organizational change. We are all a bit move cynical for it.


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