Guns in the hospitals

[Nephrology]

My hospital recently made the switch to armed security. We're one of the busiest level one trauma centers in the southern Chicago area (meaning a lot of shootings, stabbings etc from the south side wind up here).

I prefer it. We had a shooting back in 2001...a murder-suicide of a terminal patient by their spouse and that really threw into focus how the bosses felt about medical staff and security dealing with an active shooter.

As far as security having to shoot a rowdy patient....its never happened, but they exercise significant restraint because the majority of times we call them, it's because a patient is detoxifying from alcohol (it's one of the worst substances to detox from), experiencing a temporary or permanent delirium state or is otherwise unable to make any rational decisions and has come down on the "assholish" side of the spectrum. Hey, it happens. Every day I'll deal with someone whose decision making process is impaired and security deals with those people multiple times a day. Shooting them because they punched a nurse in the face is off the table. They could get tased I suppose.

I mostly figure our armed security is for when Mr. Laquan Dindunuffin is recuperating from his multiple GSWs and his "long lost cousin" comes to visit him...and by "visit" I mean finish him off in retaliation for that drive by that left someone's baby momma shot.

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Our armed security is mostly to filter out exactly that type of scenario. It is very common for individuals who have been shot/stabbed to not want to disclose who assaulted them (surprise surprise, but not our problem really). It is also very common for them to want to call their "people," which is definitely our problem.

Last time we had this scenario our patient was stabbed (but not badly, no major vascular injuries) and very intoxicated. Very insistent that he be able to call his "people." He became very confrontational and we called a team to intervene/restrain him. While he was being talked down and before the team arrived, a nurse pushed a "B52" into his IV (haldol, versed, bendaryl). By the time the team arrived, he was very cooperative and then PTFOd for 7-8 hrs.

[Josh Runkle]

Most hospitals around here have armed security at the outside entrance to the emergency department. There are still several other unarmed entrances to the ED and nothing besides a very, very slow random patrol everywhere else. I think it is more "the idea of security and access control is a deterrent."

[the_ure]

Had the misfortune of an incident on a gov funded vacation in southeast asia which necessitated a private plane ride which ended me up in a mil hospital in WA.
While there my brother came to visit me, he brought some crackers, some cheese, and a small folding knife for application of cheese.
I had 'armed security' block off the room, and ask to search my person and effects for weapons.
To my recently repatriated self, I had no weapons, as my m9, m4, m14, m249, moss500, and various rocket weapons, grenades, c4 etc. were all signed over when I left theatre.
The head security guy was maybe of a cooler mind and asked everyone else to leave the room.
He apologized and explained that a nurse had seen the knife and felt threatened and unsafe.
Of course the reason she can have that stupid feeling of safety outside my dangerous hospital room is that my brothers were bleeding and dying worldwide for her safety.
In fact I had a crushed right hand and arm, and in order to get up to piss I had to carry that arm with my remaining one.
I had nerve blockers and a delicious pain button that I could hit every 10 minutes and 38 seconds in order to not see stars from pain.
Don't really see that I how I was a threat to her. Even when whole, I was her protection.
All that to say, Concealed Carry is an irritating convention, as it makes people think that good guys don't have guns.
In many 'stans, even under mil control a man is allowed to carry a full auto ak or whatever in order to defend himself or family.
In the land of the free you aren't.
If there is an exemption in the constitution, that nulls its effects in hospitals, schools, and courts, I haven't seen it.

If you are against a person defending themselves, you are not an American, nor a decent human being.
Keep and bear.

[Josh Runkle]

To my recently repatriated self, I had no weapons, as my m9, m4, m14, m249, moss500, and various rocket weapons, grenades, c4 etc. were all signed over when I left theatre.

This is exactly what I pictured from your post...and what you need to do next time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9fQ4-eqaoE

[Hambo]

I have a challenge for anyone who thinks there shouldn't be armed security in hospitals: spend one Friday or Saturday night in the waiting room of a large, urban trauma center.

[Josh Runkle]

I have a challenge for anyone who thinks there shouldn't be armed security in hospitals: spend one Friday or Saturday night in the waiting room of a large, urban trauma center.

It's not that I don't believe in armed security...nearly all of us on this website arm ourselves for security. I'm happy to see armed security guards securing things while armed, too. The problem I have with hospital security, and most armed security...courthouses, TSA, etc., is that it is a joke. It is part of the "mitigate" and "prepare" part of the response plan, but not part of the "respond" or "recover" sections.

Hospitals would probably be better off with bouncers and a wait list than with security.

[Hizzie]

The vast majority of the nurses in my ER are female. Most of the security guys are already retired. We have a single LEO there part time. There are only three of us that were trained to Do Know Harm in our previous careers. It is not uncommon for nurses to get punched or kicked.

[Hambo]

Hospitals would probably be better off with bouncers and a wait list than with security.

If you believe that, you need to make the field trip I suggested. My wife has been a nurse for nearly thirty years, and the best hospital she worked in had its own sworn PD. They addressed hospital specific issues, not courthouse or airport security. There was one OIS that I know of that probably prevented greater violence.

[voodoo_man]

I have a challenge for anyone who thinks there shouldn't be armed security in hospitals: spend one Friday or Saturday night in the waiting room of a large, urban trauma center.

Been there, done that, no thanks...

[Duelist]

In the nineties, I worked my last two years of college in a state mental hospital as a CNA. They paid 2x minimum wage, had full time shift work, and medical benefits, and I had a new baby.

I got punched, kicked, spat upon, feces thrown at me, screaming naked people threatening to sex me to death, got to clean up blood from self-harm situations, cut down attempted suicides, got my knee smashed with a chair - that guy apologized after he got stabilized.

It's mental health care. Most of them, when they need to get shot, need Haldol or something, more than a JHP.

Our facility security was sworn peace officers who had all graduated from the state academy, but carried no firearms. County deputies backed them up as needed. Our guys carried OC, batons, etc. I carried a pair of standard police cuffs I got from my dad (retired cop), and they got used from time to time.

A lot of our staff were in college. One guy, my age, two months from graduation and with a new baby, got punched in the face one night. Crushed his cheekbone and the orbital around his eye. Eye wasn't exactly in his face, more like on it, when they wheeled him out. He never came back - they gave him some kind of pension.

Dangerous work. I left there after graduation and joined the Army. Day-to-day, I felt like the Army was safer.