Guns in the hospitals

[45dotACP]

I bumped into some of our security guys on the range the other day...one of them led me to believe their qualification course is fairly easy yet more rigorous than the Illinois CCP qualification. They're good guys, and have helped me handle rowdy patients before. Mostly they are called for that sort of thing...a rowdy patient or family member who needs to either be strapped down or shown the door. They carry sidearms, tasers, batons, handcuffs and wear armor. They seem professional and they're good at handling their usual "customers" which generally includes combative patients, asshole families/visitors and just in general violent jerks.

We haven't had a shooting in some time but my hospital tends to realize that those without swords can still die on them, so they don't raise a fuss about armed security.

As for whether I'd trust them for an active shooter situation, well I'd trust myself more having heard one tell me that he doesn't see the need to practice outside of qualifications and that he really just puts in practice if he failed qualifications and gets to retry. I think they are required to qualify twice yearly, but I got the impression that for him it was more an inconvenience that he had to put up for a job. So while I don't doubt he'd exchange shots with an active shooter, I'd still like to be allowed CCW in the hospital, but that'll never happen.

For that other stuff, combative patients etc...yeah I love to have those guys and gals around.

I don't think our security officers are contractors, as they are hired and employed by the medical group that my hospital is a part of. They are offered benefits, but definitely not paid the same as police officers, so I suspect it is cheaper to hire them than police officers. Being a level 1 trauma hospital in the south side, the police are in our ED fairly regularly, so getting ahold of a cop isn't super difficult..there's usually pretty good odds that one will be there. Especially with the fairly stunning amount of shootings in the city lately..even by Chicago standards.

[TGS]

As for whether I'd trust them for an active shooter situation, well I'd trust myself more having heard one tell me that he doesn't see the need to practice outside of qualifications and that he really just puts in practice if he failed qualifications and gets to retry. I think they are required to qualify twice yearly, but I got the impression that for him it was more an inconvenience that he had to put up for a job.

Sounds like plenty of LEOs I've met, honestly.

[voodoo_man]

Sounds like plenty of LEOs I've met, honestly.

If by plenty you mean most, than yes.

[Unobtanium]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/us...alth.html?_r=0

Are guns appropriate?
Should they be used on emotional disturbed or mental ill folk who are out of control or dangerous?
Are they over used or are the security guards trained enough for these unique situations?

Pros and cons.

A clinical friend of mine in the 70's worked in an institution. If a patient was out of control, all the men were to surround said patient and take off their glasses. Another had his front teeth knocked out.

My opinion is that firearms should be used by officers/security with PROPER training. Noone who has hands-on with patients as a normal course of business should have a firearm. There are just too many situations where a gun-grab can occur in a critical care/ER setting if healthcare personnel have weapons on them.

Also, most hospital security is a joke, which is why I say officers. We had a guy at one hospital I worked for, who carried a single-action .22 revolver because it was $1/hr more to him. When I asked if it was SA or DA, he GOOGLED the damn answer!

Most of the officers tasked to work in one of the ER's I was in were also hostage negotiator trained, etc. They were not "new guy on the job getting a few extra hours". Full body armor, etc. and they stayed OUT of patient care areas unless needed. Then they switched to private contracted security, and the firearms and body armor went away, but they did at least pick some seriously capable looking guys (6'4,250#, football player, lol)

Where I am now, the security looks like bellhop's at a hotel. No weapons, young, small guys, etc. make up about half of it. Janitor looking guys (mid 30's/40's probably okay in a fight) make up the other half, from what I've seen.

[peterb]

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-...9/my-damn-mind

Heard this yesterday. Was done in partnership with the NY Times story linked above. First episode is about a psych patient who is shot by police in his hospital room. The officers apparently had no training in dealing with delusional behavior, and things got out of hand. Staff said that kind of patient behavior was routine for them.

Big takeaway was that folks working security -- or carrying weapons -- in a hospital need specific training and protocols for that environment.

[Dr. No]

Big takeaway was that folks carrying weapons need training.

Fixed it for you.

[TheRoland]

Fixed it for you.

I really don't think that's a good fix. I think it's fairly evident that dealing with people who have debilitating mental illness is a specific skill set and that training for that is not done at the range.