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Thread: RCMP training in wake of Moncton shootings

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropist View Post
    Yeah, it's generally probably not needed but it depends where you are and obviously you never know WHEN it's going to turn out to have been needed.

    The VPD is a big outfit and iirc they've gone back and forth on off-duty carry.

    But in general, there is just so much less random violent crime that I'm not really surprised that a lot of police don't even see the need.
    The funny thing is even here I'm not so sure I need to carry off duty. Even the people I have dealt with on the job are friendly to me if I run into them. Though I'm still glad I can.

  2. #42
    Site Supporter Maple Syrup Actual's Avatar
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    Yeah, I mean the vast majority of people on this forum have probably gone thousands of consecutive days without drawing for anything other than practise, and this has got to be about the carry-est forum around...chances are pretty good that if we all just put our guns in a drawer, after ten years we'd maybe have a couple of documented incidents of forum members who really would have benefited from their guns not being in that drawer.

    But then we'd probably see something similar if we all agreed to stop wearing seatbelts, so obviously I'm totally sympathetic to the value of handguns, and naturally being one of the few Canadians here, I'm like the crazy kicked-out-of-the-NRA-for-being-too-pro-2A guy by my country's standards, so I thoroughly believe that the RIGHT is not dependent on the immediate NEED, nor the statistical probability of use for a given individual.

    But yeah, in Canada, it does basically boil down to: if you're regularly putting away Hell's Angels, or you're in a remote rural community...damn right you probably want to carry off-duty, and you're probably allowed.


    That might be one interesting quirk from the American perspective: up here it's tiny remote communities, where ironically the RCMP is almost always the police force, where police are most likely carrying off-duty, because it's the tiny hamlets where they're more likely to get shot at, and in some cases backup is hours and hours away.

    We have fly-in towns up north where you'd better believe the one cop in town is strapped in his pyjamas. Some of those places are fknuts scary. And even the remote places with roads are sometimes very, very dangerous and underpoliced.

    Conversely, I literally work in the worst part of the worst part of town in any major city west of Toronto (west of Buffalo for the uneducated) and in the big grocery store next to the biggest subway station for kilometres in any direction...there's a bunch of unguarded self-scan checkouts because almost nothing gets stolen. There's one security guard wandering the building doing nothing.

    I mean in a city of around 3 million, our recent record high total of murders and suspicious deaths (in 2013) was 53.
    This is a thread where I built a boat I designed and which I very occasionally update with accounts of using it, which is really fun as long as I'm not driving over logs and blowing up the outboard.
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ilding-a-skiff

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropist View Post
    Yeah, I mean the vast majority of people on this forum have probably gone thousands of consecutive days without drawing for anything other than practise, and this has got to be about the carry-est forum around...chances are pretty good that if we all just put our guns in a drawer, after ten years we'd maybe have a couple of documented incidents of forum members who really would have benefited from their guns not being in that drawer.

    But then we'd probably see something similar if we all agreed to stop wearing seatbelts, so obviously I'm totally sympathetic to the value of handguns, and naturally being one of the few Canadians here, I'm like the crazy kicked-out-of-the-NRA-for-being-too-pro-2A guy by my country's standards, so I thoroughly believe that the RIGHT is not dependent on the immediate NEED, nor the statistical probability of use for a given individual.

    But yeah, in Canada, it does basically boil down to: if you're regularly putting away Hell's Angels, or you're in a remote rural community...damn right you probably want to carry off-duty, and you're probably allowed.


    That might be one interesting quirk from the American perspective: up here it's tiny remote communities, where ironically the RCMP is almost always the police force, where police are most likely carrying off-duty, because it's the tiny hamlets where they're more likely to get shot at, and in some cases backup is hours and hours away.

    We have fly-in towns up north where you'd better believe the one cop in town is strapped in his pyjamas. Some of those places are fknuts scary. And even the remote places with roads are sometimes very, very dangerous and underpoliced.

    Conversely, I literally work in the worst part of the worst part of town in any major city west of Toronto (west of Buffalo for the uneducated) and in the big grocery store next to the biggest subway station for kilometres in any direction...there's a bunch of unguarded self-scan checkouts because almost nothing gets stolen. There's one security guard wandering the building doing nothing.

    I mean in a city of around 3 million, our recent record high total of murders and suspicious deaths (in 2013) was 53.
    That works for.the same reason the Swiss don't have U.S. Crime rates - because y'all are Swiss or in your case Canadian. Where as Americans are fucking crazy. It's just part of who we are.

    That said, the last guy who tried to pull a gun on me was a previously deported Canadian outlaw motorcycle gang member. It was a pretty nice Colt trooper Mark III - since this is pistol forum.

    Retaliation by former customers is not the only reason law enforcement officers should carry off-duty. Another is, although you may be off duty there is a tendency to react to things "like a cop ". I have not been in an off-duty shooting but having a gun on me has been handy a few times over the years.
    Last edited by HCM; 02-13-2016 at 12:18 AM.

  4. #44
    Site Supporter Maple Syrup Actual's Avatar
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    Well, if there's one thing I'm in support of, it's allowing concealed carry, so I don't want to appear to be anything but supportive of doing so.

    And it's also true that as much as we're "Canadians" up here the same way the Swiss are "Swiss", we've actually imported enough people who are only a few years deep in Canadian tradition and culture that we're actually losing the ability to do things in traditionally Canadian ways. There was a time when pretty much the whole country acted like rural Wisconsin and things were extremely predictable in terms of crime; that time is over unless you go to places that are the equivalent of rural Wisconsin up here.

    And then there's the reserve system, which has created these horrendous ghettos that are often quite dangerous...I know a cop who took fire from a full-auto .30 cal (very likely an AK) on the edge of one a number of years ago and I can think of other incidents involving rifle fire from multiple shooters on a reserve not too far from here, although that's more frequently intimidation than anything else.

    But we really do not have United States Grade A beefs up here. I have never, ever, ever been to a gas station in this country at which I wasn't 100% confident of being able to read a book while pumping gas at 3 am. And I'm pretty sure I've been to at least a third of the gas stations in the country.
    This is a thread where I built a boat I designed and which I very occasionally update with accounts of using it, which is really fun as long as I'm not driving over logs and blowing up the outboard.
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ilding-a-skiff

  5. #45
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    Speaking of importing new people....

    What is your take on bringing the Syrian Refugees into Canada? I know someone very involved in that, and she just could not comprehend that they may not be able to assimilate well in a country with liberal western values.

    If I make it back to Canada, I would love to do a ride along just to see the differences.

  6. #46
    Site Supporter Maple Syrup Actual's Avatar
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    I was pretty supportive of the previous government's idea of bringing in a significantly smaller number of Syrian refugees, prioritizing religious minorities that would be likely targets of muslim extremists.

    I'm also okay with the idea of bringing in larger numbers of women and children. In fact if the government announced that they were bringing in a hundred thousand Syrian refugees, all of whom were women and children, I'd probably back that financially.

    I'm completely against the idea of bringing in tens of thousands of Syrian refugees that can't and won't be screened adequately, particularly since this commitment was made with the sole intention of demonstrating the difference between the current government and the previous one. I'm against the idea that we should be bringing in large numbers of military-aged males. I'm very skeptical of the ability of large groups of any culture to assimilate, but then in Canada, "assimilation" is not an accepted term. But even the relatively benign groups we've allowed in, in large numbers, have formed large enclaves which are almost exclusively populated by their own group.

    In fact I have been extremely unimpressed with our general immigration policy, which has been very undiscriminating in terms of marrying incoming people to the existing culture. In fact, much like a lot of nordic states, the unofficial line in Canada has often been some semblance of "there is no Canadian culture to absorb, so just bring whatever you like from your country".

    And now, to my immense frustration, we have a Prime Minister who's specifically stated that there is no such thing as Canadian culture, and we're eliminating the requirement to speak either official language as a condition of citizenship - even though as anyone who lives in a major city can tell you, in the past, only rudiments have been required. But even that was apparently too much. So the official line is now much worse than the previous, politically correct, unofficial line.

    So no, I'm not happy about it. I don't particularly fear that there are sleeper agents being imported or anything; my concern is basically cultural. I deal with a lot of Somalian, Indian, and Pakistani immigrants, and while I don't expect specific, planned, infiltration by ISIS adherents, I do expect we'll see some fairly incompatible values and I don't like that. If you're familiar with the Air India bombing, for example, the issue was not that we imported organized terrorists and murderers per se, but that we imported a fertile ground for extant beliefs to flourish.

    On top of that, part of the reason my wife and I moved out of the area we used to live in was that she got tired of being verbally harassed by men (when alone, obviously...they weren't suicide attacks) primarily from the three countries mentioned above.

    And, like a lot of guys, I'd guess, I'd pretty much condemn an entire city to death if it reduced the likelihood of my wife feeling frightened or upset, so leaving people in refugee camps...yeah, that wouldn't even make me blink.

    And that's not even touching on the news out of Europe about the...integration difficulties.

    I'm not sure when you were last in Vancouver but if it wasn't recently you should definitely come up and look around if radical cultural shifts caused by immigration interest you. Let me know if you do.
    This is a thread where I built a boat I designed and which I very occasionally update with accounts of using it, which is really fun as long as I'm not driving over logs and blowing up the outboard.
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ilding-a-skiff

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Since the Bu has absolutely nothing to do with other agency 's unfortunate practices...
    That was my point.

    Silly? Okay.

    .

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Wendell View Post
    ERT had Sigs before the other members got auto pistols. Old ERT members might still have their old Sig, but new ERT members get a blackened no-mag-disconnect 5946.

    (AFAIK.)
    Got it, thanks.


    .

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    That was my point.

    Silly? Okay.

    .
    I guess I'm lost then, so I apologize for misunderstanding and thinking something else.

  10. #50

    Mounties challenge claim that carbines are in every patrol vehicle

    Two RCMP members at different detachments in New Brunswick, who said they can't speak publicly about issues within the force, were responding to comments by RCMP Assistant Commissioner Roger Brown who recently said there was a carbine in every police car. "To me it seemed like an outright lie to the public to say, 'Yep, we've got it, it's all under control,"' one officer said in an interview. "I'm sitting in my patrol car right now and there's no carbine. I have the shotgun. No one on my team has access to the carbine right now, so it's there but nobody can use it." The officers say they have access to the guns in their offices, but they or their colleagues can't use them because they haven't received the required training. Another officer in a different New Brunswick detachment also said he has access to the carbines, but sometimes fewer than half the people he works with on a shift are trained on how to use it. "There might be a carbine for every car, but you can't put a carbine in every car if the member's not trained," he said. "A carbine in every car? That's not the case."
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mountie...icle-1.2792679

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