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Thread: El Presidente

  1. #11
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    I really like Hit Factor scoring with the Minor points scheme. I think that is pretty balanced. I think the criticisms of Hit Factor scoring apply much better to the Major points scheme.

    To the questions in the OP, and this is just me talking without giving it a lot of thought, and being pretty exhausted after class all weekend: I think of must-be-clean-or-does-not-count runs of about 7-8 seconds as good, under 7 seconds including penalties under IDPA scoring as good, and under 5 seconds with As/Cs/maybe a D under Hit Factor as good. As for the different ways to score it, I like all of them and just think they end up emphasizing different aspects of shooting.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin B. View Post
    Consistent sub-7.0, clean runs would be what I consider really good.
    Agreed.

    I'm kind of an El Pres fundamentalist. Your time is your score, and only clean runs count.


    Okie John

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    As for the different ways to score it, I like all of them and just think they end up emphasizing different aspects of shooting.
    I think that's really it for me.

    If I turn and go for "all brown" as my goal and HF scoring I usually go about 4.5 and 45-52 points. There are many variables and I am emphasizing the turn and draw, transitions and splits, and the reload. Those skills are what is measured in that style scoring in my opinion.

    If I go for all A's I'm usually between 6.5-7 seconds. But what is tested is much different that above.

    I personally find it harder for me to shoot it clean under 7 than to go for the highest HF; but there are some that are just the opposite.
    Last edited by nwhpfan; 02-08-2016 at 09:41 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    As for the different ways to score it, I like all of them and just think they end up emphasizing different aspects of shooting.
    This.

    As we know, (Well at least some of us) we can't train for accuracy and speed simultaneously. If we only shoot all A's slowly, we will be shooting all A's slowly only for the rest of our lives. As it was mentioned before by a lot of accomplished shooters , speed will not come automatically unless we work on it in isolation.
    Various ways of scoring help to evaluate the performance in different modes (Speed, Accuracy, Match) for different drills. None of the scoring methods are perfect but in general, HF scoring is the most balanced IMO. Personally I do not like IDPA scoring because the penalties for bad hits are the same for all targets regardless of their difficulty. For example, a C shot on 5 yrd target should not have the same penalty as a C shot on 25yrd target covered by no-shoots.

  5. #15
    Member Sal Picante's Avatar
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  6. #16
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    I think a "good" run is sub-6 with all alphas.

    A great run is sub-5 with all alphas.

    If you can do it consistently, then you're a BAMF.

  7. #17
    Necropost

    I’m going to use this drill with steel targets (A/C zone) at the requisite 10 yards. I will be adding this into a Department range day and/or class and in an effort to keep things safe I am removing the turn. I will also be preloading mags to between 6 and 11 rounds (I don’t want them anticipating a mag change at the 6th round which would normally be slide lock on the traditional drill). Plus, the preload was recommended by Hackathorn for modern pistols.

    Officers will be doing this with Glock 17’s from 6360 holsters, and mag pouches with flaps. I’ve bought some LEO type morale patches to be given to the winner each day. My question is, given that we will be doing this in duty gear what are respectable times for the drill? Not that it really matters because the fastest will get the patch, just curious...
    Last edited by KeeFus; 01-28-2018 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #18
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    That depends on what your expected standard normally is. Some people say 10 seconds is great, others 4. No turn isn't a big deal as it's not much slower than starting facing the target, but retention gear and surprise reloads are going to add a decent chunk to the time.
    Last edited by Peally; 01-28-2018 at 04:29 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    That depends on what your expected standard normally is. Some people say 10 seconds is great, others 4. No turn isn't a big deal as it's not much slower than starting facing the target, but retention gear and surprise reloads are going to add a decent chunk to the time.
    Thanks for the response. I know the duty holster and mag pouch with flaps will add time...I’m just looking for a middle of the road bench mark for them to aim for. My time will be faster because i practice...but the vast majority of my folks don’t.

  10. #20
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    I'm completely spitballing but 10 seconds sounds good for someone with retention gear and not a lot of practice assuming a USPSA target with mainly A's and some C's. 10 seconds all A's is on the edge just under B class for reference, so high C class is good. Might want to bump that time up a bit depending on what your crew's general skill level is though, sometimes C isn't easy for someone out of practice.
    Last edited by Peally; 01-28-2018 at 04:59 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

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