"Grandma Gun" .380 load

[Hauptmann]

Best link is to Tam's website: http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot...w-project.html

The P250 compact comes with a medium size grip module. I purchased the small grip module for my sister's smaller (and sadly arthritic) hands. Be advised presently Sig sells the compact module for their 9mm size P250 but not the .380. That module fits and the gun functions just fine. However, as the 9 has a longer slide than the .380, there is a bit of a forward projection of the dust cover/rail section by about 1/2 inch. If she prefers the small module I could call the extension a "standoff" feature for contact shots. More probably I'll just saw off the offending portion.

I wish you the best in your endeavor. The worry with the .380acp of course is the shallow penetration characteristics of ALL of the JHPs on the market. There just simply isn't a way to engineer a better JHP given the bullet length limitations of the .380. The best solution would be to design a new .30-.32 caliber, high pressure cartridge what would fit into a .380acp length action, but would use longer bullets with higher sectional densities in order to achieve deep penetrating expanded JHPs. On paper it works just fine with modern compact powders.

I'm not sure what the best solution is for the .380, but with 15+1 rounds of 99gr HSTs on tap it might make up for poor penetration in a civilian shooting. Given the legal limitations of civilian self defense, perhaps this would work out okay.

[Tamara]

If you want a small, and light subcompact the smallest I would consider is a J-frame sized .38spl or better yet a 9mm.

Yeah, because DAO J-frames are the hot ticket for arthritic hands and people with very little upper body strength.

The shooting community just loves to think that everybody is a young, fit male with good eyesight who is going to spend a couple hours a week at the range and dry-fire diligently.

How about grandma? Doesn't she get to shoot bad guys, too?

I've spent the last several months watching exactly this demographic trying to deal with Glock 43s, Shields, and Airweight J's foisted off on them by well meaning clerks.

Do you know what a Glock 43 or Shield does when loaded with 100gr @ 1100fps Critical Defense Lite* and gripped in a less-than-rock-solid grip?


*One thing nobody mentions about these "Lite" and "Managed Recoil" loads is that they barely have the ass to run the gun under ideal conditions, and Clara Peller's wavering grasp is as far from "ideal conditions" as it gets. We're selling those people boxes of FTEs and double feeds waiting to happen...

[Hauptmann]

Do you know what a Glock 43 or Shield does when loaded with 100gr @ 1100fps Critical Defense Lite and gripped in a less-than-rock-solid grip?

In that regard it does make sense. All my training involves people who have to bench 90% of their body weight twice a year, so you're right, I don't have any personal experience with this.

[Tamara]

If someone can run the gun (and barring serious grip strength/infirmity issues, probably 95+% of the people can) I'm all about the compact-size service nine being the panacaea for "What gun should I pick?" problems.

"Get a (G19/P320C/M&P9 FS) and go forth and prosper."

But there are some folks who just can't, for whatever reason. I was working with a customer who had purchased a G43 on the advice of friends and relatives and the poor guy just could barely run the gun, at least from a manual of arms perspective. From a functioning standpoint, if he didn't have a two-handed deathgrip on the thing, it was stovepipe city. He was in his eighties, felt unsafe living in the city, and hadn't fired a handgun since shooting a service automatic during his Navy years, and recent events saw him buying this one. I was sorely tempted to cut Sig a check for the .380 P250C T&E gun and give it to him on the spot.

Better fifteen chances at the bad guy with suboptimal .380 FMJ than trying to beat on an intruder with an FTE'ed 43 full of 147gr HSTs...

[Tamara]

What I'd like to see as a defensive load for .32/.380 is a bullet that looks like a JHP but is not designed to expand. I think this would be less likely to skid off ribs or noggin bones than a round-nose or even flat meplat FMJ.

There was something like this done some years back, the name escapes me and I'm not going up to the attic to look, but they used flyweight copper bullets.

[Drang]

Yeah, because DAO J-frames are the hot ticket for arthritic hands and people with very little upper body strength.

The shooting community just loves to think that everybody is a young, fit male with good eyesight who is going to spend a couple hours a week at the range and dry-fire diligently.

How about grandma? Doesn't she get to shoot bad guys, too?

I've spent the last several months watching exactly this demographic trying to deal with Glock 43s, Shields, and Airweight J's foisted off on them by well meaning clerks.

Do you know what a Glock 43 or Shield does when loaded with 100gr @ 1100fps Critical Defense Lite* and gripped in a less-than-rock-solid grip?


*One thing nobody mentions about these "Lite" and "Managed Recoil" loads is that they barely have the ass to run the gun under ideal conditions, and Clara Peller's wavering grasp is as far from "ideal conditions" as it gets. We're selling those people boxes of FTEs and double feeds waiting to happen...

I cannot like this post enough.
Whether Sam Colt really aid it or not--my money is on the 19th Century equivalent of his advertising department--the development of the handy, reliable handgun brought about a world where

Be afraid of any man
No matter what his size
When danger threatens call on me
And I shall equalize

means that arthritic pensioners in wheelchairs have a fighting chance.

[Chuck Haggard]

What I'd like to see as a defensive load for .32/.380 is a bullet that looks like a JHP but is not designed to expand. I think this would be less likely to skid off ribs or noggin bones than a round-nose or even flat meplat FMJ.

There was something like this done some years back, the name escapes me and I'm not going up to the attic to look, but they used flyweight copper bullets.

I think is was MSC, something like Maximum Sub Caliber, Ed Sanow was pimping it back when, made in .32 and .25acp IIRC

I think that would be an optimal round for a pocket gun.


In FMJs the .380 has plenty of soft tissue penetration. In gel testing the JHPs I'd be comfortable with include the XTP, Hydrashock and the Gold Dot. My daughter's .380 pocket gun has Gold Dots in it currently, if that tells you anything about my observation of how that ammo works. No, 11" in gel does not meet FBI spec. Not a big deal IMHO

[Drang]

Sheesh.
You'd think I would have caught and fixed the typos on the first try...

I cannot like this post enough.
Whether Sam Colt really said it or not--my money is on the 19th Century equivalent of his advertising department--the development of the handy, reliable handgun brought about a world where

Be not afraid of any man
No matter what his size
When danger threatens call on me
And I shall equalize

means that arthritic pensioners in wheelchairs have a fighting chance.

I'm sure everyone here knew what I meant, but still...

[Hauptmann]

Sheesh.
You'd think I would have caught and fixed the typos on the first try...

I'm sure everyone here knew what I meant, but still...

Honestly I thought you were drunk at a Super Bowl party.

[Det1397]

In FMJs the .380 has plenty of soft tissue penetration. In gel testing the JHPs I'd be comfortable with include the XTP, Hydrashock and the Gold Dot. My daughter's .380 pocket gun has Gold Dots in it currently, if that tells you anything about my observation of how that ammo works. No, 11" in gel does not meet FBI spec. Not a big deal IMHO

When I carry a .380 as a BUG or as an occasional off duty (I know...), I use the XTP loading also.
Been wondering though, anyone have any real life thoughts on the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator? http://www.lehighdefense.com/product...ant=1066236304