Failures due to the grip safety?

[StraitR]

If you do not depress the grip safety on an XD, the pistol will not fire even if the trigger is pulled nor can the slide be cycled. If the shooters grip failed to depress the GS, the gun would simply not fire. As such, I cannot fathom how the GS could induce a stovepipe. That said, anything is possible.

Could be a matter of grip strength, technique, or a combination of both. Could even be that the pistol seemingly functioned fine for the other 90 rounds, but in actuality it's right on the edge of failure due to strength, technique, or even a maintenance issue. Can't say for sure via an internet diagnosis, but she's certainly not the first person to ever experience malfunctions shooting from retention.

If someone spent five minutes with her to nail down the technique, plus hit the pistol with some extra "just because" drops of lube, I'd be willing to bet she could run that drill without fail moving forward.

Strength is always a factor, and one if it's biggest advantages is masking less that stellar technique. Really strong people can mash the crap out of a trigger with less effect on accuracy than those with less strength. Also, it usually only takes a minute to teach someone that appears physically incapable to lock the slide back on a semi auto by showing them a better technique.

[JonInWA]

While it's not necessarily a "bad" gun per se, and I have seen numerous shooters shoot them quite credibly in IDPA matches, I don't think that you'll find many on this forum particularly singing their praises or recommending them. They tend to have several strikes against them; 1, the grip safety, as enumerated in the thread; 2, that they have not distinguished themselves in any major LEO trials, and 3, that their detailed disassembly is a magnitude greater than, say, Glocks (arguably their primary niche competitor), and 4, from here to Croatia is a tad of a hike for parts support...

That said, since others may well ask questions/seek advice, they certainly are worthy of discussion. And they do have some nice features that definitely appeal to hobbyists.

Best, Jon

[HCM]

Glenn,

How is this lady's build? I ask because we have a few females at work who need to cant the gun outboard when shooting from retention because they either get hit by the slide or are afraid of getting hit by the slide. That could compromise grip and explain why the gun only malfunctioned from retention.

[GOTURBACK]

My thought is that shooting from close retention the slide could have been contacting her body/clothing restricting it from fully cycling subsequent to firing the initial round which could definitely induce a stovepipe.

[Zhurdan]

The only pistol that "fit" my wife's hands was an XD so that's what she wanted. Had a very similar issue with her first gun. Thin hands seemed to be the culprit because when she really got down on it, even with one hand, it worked fine. The problem was when she was focusing on other aspects, she'd lose the grip. Shes a relatively new shooter and that, I think is what caused her problem.

[BJXDS]

Not trying to start an argument, but the XDS slide will run without the grip safety depressed, but I do not think the same is true of the XD line.

In any case I have heard of a case where dried mud prevented the grip safety on an XDS from being fully depressed and it would not fire. I had to try real hard to make a gun with a grip safety fail to fire by holding it in some weird positions but it could be done.

With that said I have no real hard test data but FWIW the grip safety is a potential point of failure so with so many quality firearms with out one, why take the chance?

[Zhurdan]

Not trying to start an argument, but the XDS slide will run without the grip safety depressed, but I do not think the same is true of the XD line.

In any case I have heard of a case where dried mud prevented the grip safety on an XDS from being fully depressed and it would not fire. I had to try real hard to make a gun with a grip safety fail to fire by holding it in some weird positions but it could be done.

With that said I have no real hard test data but FWIW the grip safety is a potential point of failure so with so many quality firearms with out one, why take the chance?

If referring to my post, I think she was partially engaging the safety, some of the time, but when she focused on her grip the gun ran fine. We no longer own that gun. She opted for a revolver due to lack of grip strength, her choice. Works like a champ and now she shoots more. Bonus!

[Tamara]

Run to me means that it goes bang and continues to go bang as needed. Said gun went bang once and then stove piped on the second round. It did this three times in a row. I asked as the gun worked for about 90 other rounds that day. So what was causal? It was in a one handed retention position with a female shooter. This is not to disparage females but wondering if grip strength or as Katy suggested small hand position interacted with the grip safety.

The malfunction as described cannot have anything to do with the grip safety.

The malfunction as described is, however, a classic "limp wrist" malfunction.

[ReverendMeat]

The grip safety on the XD prevents the sear from moving until disengaged. As such, the gun simply wouldn't fire. While it also prevents the slide from moving rearward more than a centimeter or so, since the gun fired and the slide moved rearward far enough to fully extract the empty case, the grip safety was clearly disengaged. There's much more likely explanations for the failures to eject.

[Tamara]

In re: the cavalry thing...

Bear in mind that cavalry pistols were retained by lanyards. A private could go from riding and shooting one minute to trying to control a wounded horse or even drawing a sword. Suddenly letting go of a cocked single-action pistol where it would then be free to bang around, dangling on the end of its lanyard, presenting a danger to the rider, the horse, and his squadronmates, seemed like a bad idea, unless the very act of letting go of it activated a safety. Hence the grip safety.

It is interesting that the last purpose-designed cavalry pistol, the Polish wz. 35, which was heavily influenced by the 1911, dispensed with the thumb safety, but retained the grip safety. It also added a decocker. Apparently, if Pvt. Jablonski had time to holster, he could decock the gun, but if he had to drop it and let it dangle, the grip safety was there to prevent loud noises.