10rnds, 25y, b8, 5 seconds from high ready

[Clobbersaurus]

When someone reports something, like in a DOW, or posts a video (as I did this morning in the HK thread), it means nothing to me, except they are capable of that level of performance at least once, in a situation they control. What really means something to me, is when someone shoots on demand in front of others, without mulligans, with the results, good or bad, known to all. While it is theoretically possible to do that in a class, it is an unusual opportunity.

Ernest Langdon administering the FAST comes to mind. I felt more pressure to perform for that test (mostly self induced wanting to do well) than I have in the matches I've completed in. I fumbled my reload and missed getting a pin, which irks me to no end. The next time I get a chance, I'll be as ready as I can be. Which will probably double the pressure.

[Mr_White]

Ernest Langdon administering the FAST comes to mind. I felt more pressure to perform for that test (mostly self induced wanting to do well) than I have in the matches I've completed in. I fumbled my reload and missed getting a pin, which irks me to no end. The next time I get a chance, I'll be as ready as I can be. Which will probably double the pressure.

I hear you there. Creating this opportunity for students is one of the great things about having some test, whose outcome they care about. Now I could see it if some random person happens into a Langdon class and isn't really aware of the FAST and so they shoot it and it's a whole lot of 'so what, I shot a test, and I got/didn't get the pin.' But, at the other end of the spectrum, you have people who practically live on PF, know and love the FAST, shoot it regularly, develop expectations about what they can do or should be able to do, and then have a very rare chance (class or event with Langdon/TLG) to win it. Your turn, beep! The stress partly depends on how much you care about the outcome of the task at hand.

I think one aspect of pressure felt in a lot of competitive shooting that is an advantage over short-form tests in class, as good as those are, is the longer length of the match. That represents many many more opportunities to make mistakes and I think takes a higher order of skill than a short test. Also challenging is the shift up and down in mental and emotional arousal over the course of the match. That was something I had not thought of, but was pointed out to me by HeadHunter after the April 2014 Rogers class. You wait, you stress, you wait, you stress, this goes on for some time...now your turn, go! Then you wait. And you stress. And you wait. And you stress. And you deal with that stress as well as you can but it's still a thing. Then it's your turn. Ok, that's two out of six or so stages in a match. Four more to go...

[taadski]

That was something I had not thought of, but was pointed out to me by HeadHunter after the April 2014 Rogers class. You wait, you stress, you wait, you stress, this goes on for some time...now your turn, go! Then you wait. And you stress. And you wait. And you stress. And you deal with that stress as well as you can but it's still a thing. Then it's your turn. Ok, that's two out of six or so stages in a match. Four more to go...

You're making my palms all sweaty!

[taadski]

That made me laugh my ass off!


Hot shit shooting, btw.



t

[Clobbersaurus]

I hear you there. Creating this opportunity for students is one of the great things about having some test, whose outcome they care about. Now I could see it if some random person happens into a Langdon class and isn't really aware of the FAST and so they shoot it and it's a whole lot of 'so what, I shot a test, and I got/didn't get the pin.' But, at the other end of the spectrum, you have people who practically live on PF, know and love the FAST, shoot it regularly, develop expectations about what they can do or should be able to do, and then have a very rare chance (class or event with Langdon/TLG) to win it. Your turn, beep! The stress partly depends on how much you care about the outcome of the task at hand.

I think one aspect of pressure felt in a lot of competitive shooting that is an advantage over short-form tests in class, as good as those are, is the longer length of the match. That represents many many more opportunities to make mistakes and I think takes a higher order of skill than a short test. Also challenging is the shift up and down in mental and emotional arousal over the course of the match. That was something I had not thought of, but was pointed out to me by HeadHunter after the April 2014 Rogers class. You wait, you stress, you wait, you stress, this goes on for some time...now your turn, go! Then you wait. And you stress. And you wait. And you stress. And you deal with that stress as well as you can but it's still a thing. Then it's your turn. Ok, that's two out of six or so stages in a match. Four more to go...

I agree with everything above. At the EL class we had a lot of competition shooters who, with the exception of one or two, didn't have anything emotionally invested in the FAST. The FAST at it's heart is really a Timmy test, and doesn't mean as much to pure competition shooters.

One thing that EL does do, which I think is great, is give out hats for students that post the best times on certain drills that he uses in his courses. He doesn't sell the hats, you have to earn them by posting the best time. It adds another layer of stress to those drills, because I can tell you with the close speed drill, I wanted that damn hat! It made for a lot of tension/expectation at the "beep".

I like your comments about match stress. I am a novice when it comes to matches and my expectations going in last season were fairly low. Now that I have a few under my belt, my expectations of myself are higher, knowing what I need to work on and knowing what I should be able to do. It will be an interesting season as I will be shooting many more matches this year and have set personal goals.

I just started listening to the latest Seeklander podcast with Rob Letham and though I'm not finished yet, Letham had some good points about match mindset in the first few minutes. You might find it interesting to listen to.

[EM_]

Believe me when I say I appreciate the suggestion and wholeheartedly understand that posting a photo of something, or even a video of something may be BS (see instructor zero, haley, etc), I am always the first person to call out such BS when I see it. I regularly train with people who give absolutely zero fucks about "could" "would" or "might" if you can't perform on demand you need to train more.

Without turning this thread into a big discussion on gaming vs real world stuff, I will just say this. I have spent a good part of many years training gun handling, shooting and tactics. I am fairly positive given my previous performance (in a private class about two or three months ago) that I have the "on demand" performance down when it comes to gun handling and shooting. I will forever be a student of tactics and their application into my profession and as well as how they pertain to the CCW citizen. I am choosing to, now, spend my time on other forms of training that I have neglected in the past to solidify my ability in the aforementioned areas.

If I am fortunate enough to see retirement and am still physically capable of instructing then I may compete, but not sooner.

I'm glad to hear this from someone else. I see everyone (here, FB, etc.) competing and think I'm missing out on something. I've shot some USPSA in the past, and while enjoyable, is just not an area in which I want to focus a lot of what little training time I have. That's basically the only reason I don't do it more; I'm really just not that competitive of a person. Perhaps that's strange for a type-A person in the same career field as voodoo-man. For instance at the matches I don't really feel any pressure at all, however I am under extreme stress shooting in front of my team members and very much want to win in any of our side competitions. I can only theorize that the when shooting at the match I have zero concern for the opinions of the other shooters and don't really care how they shoot, only concerned with my performance.

Between work and classes I do different drills on demand, and always do well, and feel pretty confident in my abilities based on my experiences. In my own training I do like to use competition-oriented drills to gauge my times to ensure I'm performing at a standard and always progressing. We also try to make our team shoots as competitive as possible.

Just to be clear I am NOT knocking competition and I think it's got great value to add for defensive shooters who wish to pursue it. I wish I enjoyed it more and maybe after in retirement I'll find an area of competition I enjoy more.

[voodoo_man]

I'm glad to hear this from someone else. I see everyone (here, FB, etc.) competing and think I'm missing out on something. I've shot some USPSA in the past, and while enjoyable, is just not an area in which I want to focus a lot of what little training time I have. That's basically the only reason I don't do it more; I'm really just not that competitive of a person. Perhaps that's strange for a type-A person in the same career field as voodoo-man. For instance at the matches I don't really feel any pressure at all, however I am under extreme stress shooting in front of my team members and very much want to win in any of our side competitions. I can only theorize that the when shooting at the match I have zero concern for the opinions of the other shooters and don't really care how they shoot, only concerned with my performance.

Between work and classes I do different drills on demand, and always do well, and feel pretty confident in my abilities based on my experiences. In my own training I do like to use competition-oriented drills to gauge my times to ensure I'm performing at a standard and always progressing. We also try to make our team shoots as competitive as possible.

Just to be clear I am NOT knocking competition and I think it's got great value to add for defensive shooters who wish to pursue it. I wish I enjoyed it more and maybe after in retirement I'll find an area of competition I enjoy more.

Stress comes in different forums and when you figure out which stress works best on you, then you should seek that stress out and attempt to gain control over the stress.

We all have an internal, undocumented and incalculable pie chart that shows our skillsets and how they pertain to a specific area of expertise. It does not show the time-commitment required to gain proficiency in one area or another. My suggestion is that personal priorities supersede psychological wants. Everyone wants to be a GM, but what is having a GM title going to do for you in a real world deadly force confrontation? Especially when you allotted so much time to a very particular skillset but ignored others like tactics, awareness or combatives?

I do an exercise with the guys and girls I work with, I have them write down the top five skillsets they need to survive during their shift everyday. I am not talking about "shooting" because that is general, but a very specific skillset. "Drawing from retention and putting 5 shots on target as fast, and as accurately, as possible at 3 yards." Is something we normally get to then I asked them how often they practice this skillset - nearly zero. Make a list, make a standard for that skillset, keep changing it as your personal requirements change and as you evolve as a shooter/fighter/dangerous human being.

[EM_]

I do an exercise with the guys and girls I work with, I have them write down the top five skillsets they need to survive during their shift everyday. I am not talking about "shooting" because that is general, but a very specific skillset. "Drawing from retention and putting 5 shots on target as fast, and as accurately, as possible at 3 yards." Is something we normally get to then I asked them how often they practice this skillset - nearly zero. Make a list, make a standard for that skillset, keep changing it as your personal requirements change and as you evolve as a shooter/fighter/dangerous human being.

Stealing this as fast as I can!

[Mr_White]

Don't know what the drill is called, but what the title says...did with a dueck defense RBU and a 3.25moa RMR - so I cheated, a bit.

Hey VDM, what kind of trigger/trigger weight do you have in that Glock?

[voodoo_man]

Hey VDM, what kind of trigger/trigger weight do you have in that Glock?

Zevtech fulcrum i got for t&e. So far 1kish rounds only a few issues in the beginning. Super light.