Defensive Pistol Ammo Accuracy/Precision

[spinmove_]

Based on a discussion that was started not long ago concerning Hornady's Critical Duty and Critical Defense loads, it got me thinking about the relative accuracy differences between defensive ammo loadings. If we consider the priorities needed in a DGU from our ammo, I believe the order of precedence goes as follows:

1.) Reliability (edited: thanks, JHC)
2.) Shot placement
3.) Penetration
4.) Expansion (maybe)

I say expansion (maybe) as I think being able to expand reliably is a function of the bullet having the ability to not fully penetrate through and through a given target. Please feel free to correct me there if I'm incorrect.

Having said that, why is accuracy testing generally not done on defensive pistol ammo? Why is more emphasis not put into this aspect? Which loads/bullets are generally the most accurate? Are there details/tests that substantiate these notions/claims?

[JHC]

In previous ammo discussions I've seen DocGKR rank selection priority as #1 reliability and #2 accuracy in your carry gun. I could be mistaken but I'm high 90's percentile certain.

You ask a good question. I've seen some recent carry ammo - Speer Gold Dots group rather poorly from one of my guns whereas I'd found it highly precise some years ago and side by side I was seeing super accuracy from Speer Lawman 115 grain which I'm now hooked on (hat tip to GJM for recommending back in 2015).

[spinmove_]

Well, yeah, I suppose I forgot that one. The cartridge doesn't do you any good if it doesn't fundamentally feed reliably. Editing original list. I suppose the issue there is going to be one of making sure to test your chosen load in said guns before trusting it. I suspect that its not very common that many modern double stack pistols won't feed certain types of ammo, but it is a variable to consider and not outside of the realm of potentially causing issues.

[Chuck Haggard]

I've noted that most quality JHPs are pretty decent as far as accuracy. Often times quite a bit more accurate than ball ammo.

[spinmove_]

I've noted that most quality JHPs are pretty decent as far as accuracy. Often times quite a bit more accurate than ball ammo.

I heard the same too, but what quantifiable evidence do we have to compare the various JHPs? Ancedotally I've heard Hornady makes some ridiculously accurate loadings. Conversely I've heard that loadings that have the Barnes all copper bullet (a la Barnes TAC-XP and Cor-Bon DPX) don't particularly have fantastic accuracy. But we don't exactly have a set of numbers/tests that can be referenced to state for sure. It just strikes me as funny that rifle cartridges, even the defensive loadings, typically have accuracy/precision tests that go along with them. Not so much so with defensive pistol ammo.

[JAD]

I may just be mistaken, but I generally think of accuracy as pretty gun-specific. I therefore use the following prototcol when I get a new gun:
1) Shoot groups at 25 with any ammo from Doc's list I happen to have on hand as well as some ASYM (preferably their Barnes loads if available in that caliber) which I always have on hand.
2) If I can't find a defensive load on my shelves that groups as well as the ASYM buy some more stuff to try.
3) Once I get a defensive load that's up to the bar of ASYM (or if the ASYM gets outshot, as Hornady CD and RA9TA have occasionally done) buy 200 rounds of it and use a practice session to validate reliability
4) Buy another 200 rounds of it and sit on it.

For this reason I have pretty decent inventories of three different 9 mm defensive loads that are on the list. All of my .45s like Gold Dot and HST standard pressure 230s equally, I've never seen a compelling difference, so I keep whichever of those happens to be available around. My .38 Super likes Wilson's loading of the Barnes bullet. I have 9s that like RA9TA, CD 135+P, and 124 GD+P to a pronounced degree, so I usually have those around.

[okie john]

I may just be mistaken, but I generally think of accuracy as pretty gun-specific.

Winner.


Okie John

[Chuck Haggard]

I heard the same too, but what quantifiable evidence do we have to compare the various JHPs? Ancedotally I've heard Hornady makes some ridiculously accurate loadings. Conversely I've heard that loadings that have the Barnes all copper bullet (a la Barnes TAC-XP and Cor-Bon DPX) don't particularly have fantastic accuracy. But we don't exactly have a set of numbers/tests that can be referenced to state for sure. It just strikes me as funny that rifle cartridges, even the defensive loadings, typically have accuracy/precision tests that go along with them. Not so much so with defensive pistol ammo.

25 yard bullseye groups give the shooter the info they need to know, assuming the shooter has the skill for that.


I recall in the original FBI testing that minimum accuracy standards were specified.

[spinmove_]

Ok, so if the accuracy difference between the vast majority of the loads on "the list" are fairly minuscule, why is there another thread touting the "extreme accuracy" of the Critical Defense? If it's THAT much more precise, I guess I'm just curious to know about how much more precise it is.

[JHC]

Ok, so if the accuracy difference between the vast majority of the loads on "the list" are fairly minuscule, why is there another thread touting the "extreme accuracy" of the Critical Defense? If it's THAT much more precise, I guess I'm just curious to know about how much more precise it is.

It is precise in the OP's guns. .45 ACP Critical Duty is very accurate in my 1911 and was in my Blackhawk with the ACP cylinder. OTOH just back checking and the Critical Duty .357 Sig loading is not very precise in my G31. Worse than some training ammo.