Oh, I still like to beat this topic to death on the Internet.
[emoji41]
Oh, I still like to beat this topic to death on the Internet.
[emoji41]
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
It's only a headache if you let it be.Originally Posted by rob_s
Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl
Think for yourself. Question authority.
Precisely.
I consider it a case- by-case thing. If the shooters look serious I'll offer resources for them to seek qualified instruction.
Otherwise I keep my trap shut, because the fact is not everyone is at the gun range because they like shooting or want to improve their abilities . The term "shooting range" is IMO a misnomer-we should call these facilities the "showoff lanes" because for 95% of folks that's what they are.
Most folks go to the firing line as a social experience, like a gun show but where you actually get to shoot a few rounds.
Asking or offering advice to improve a strangers shooting is in some ways like asking a car show patron if they'd like a faster way to drive to work. It's not about improvement, the range is a social venue where guys* get to show off their Diamond Plate Sigs and FDE Glocks while debating Obama's latest speech on gun control.
* I've noticed women are an excellent exception to this. Every female I've seen at mine and other ranges has equalled or out-performed her male companion. When it comes to classes they also pay attention and don't file a Butthurt Form when the instructor offers correction.
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
I'm liking posts left and right.
I don't bother helping people unless they're very close and may actually listen to what I'm saying. With everyone else it's generally a waste of everyone's time, they already know what they want.
Semper Gumby, Always Flexible
Heh. I am fortunate in that the job I hold puts me in contact with lots of 20-30 something y/o females. When they ask me a question about firearms, they REALLY are looking for guidance for the most part. It makes my secondary position as a training geek much easier.
In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man
I actually enjoy doing women's only CCW classes, classes with "gun guy" husband and the "little lady" are a damn chore.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
The "lead instructor" at the local range vaunts his "credentials" often: during 4 years in the Corps as an armorer he qualified "Expert" with the M9 three times... I no longer offer advice in public due to the hurting of his butt. My approach now is very symmetrical to JodyH.
No I won't give my $.02, but if you want to learn more about shooting buy some ammo and a sixpack for me and let's hit the range for an afternoon.
Peer reviews, reviews from people you trust, and a solid look at their (real) qualifications. There are some morons out there, some who probably believe what they are selling and some who are the PT Barnum of the firearms world.
I teach about two classes a year solely because I want the information out there. I had no desire to be a trainer and originally just tried to give the info to other trainers, but was convinced that it was better material presented by someone who really understood it and can answer questions. I do *not* teach handgun fundamentals. If you can't handle a gun safely and can't keep your bullets on a 7y target, you can't take my class. I partnered with a shooting coach who runs the logistics and addresses the shooting mechanics, but that's not the focus of the class. I teach techniques for countering random violence based on observations, interviews, etc. the knowledge gained over years as a detective dealing with people shot, stabbed, and robbed in random encounters. So, evaluate my background, see what others who know a little something who've taken the class think, and then make up your mind. If it sucks, you're out less than a $100 and got some range time out of the deal AND got to run through scenarios from real robberies, see some video of real robberies and have body language broken down, etc.
Now, should you come learn handgun fundamentals from me? Probably not. What are my quals to teach that? Because I tell you I'm better than the average bear? Even if I am (and I am), does that mean I can teach you to be? Maybe. But at this point, you'd be beta testing as I have no track record and no objective proof students do better after.
Personally I think you hit diminishing returns fairly early if your goal is simply to be a safe CCW guy. Don't get me wrong, the better a shot you are and the better trained you are the more circumstances you can handle. Learn basic gun safety and handling, learn to disguise your draw and to consistently, smoothly, and quickly deploy a functioning weapon, and learn basic marksmanship and you'll quite literally be ready for 90%+ of what faces the target of a street robbery, etc. Tack on some 1st aid, some conflict management, and some body language/proxemics training focused on seeing trouble coming and avoiding it and you're golden for all but the worst of the worst situations.
Just yesterday at work I had a guy in there who was suffering from analysis paralysis. You get 'em every now and again; they've decided to buy a gun and because they're analytical people, they researched the topic as best they could on the internet, and now they're wandering from showcase to showcase holding the P07 and the P250 and the used Glock 19 and wondering if strikers are safe enough or hammers are better and which feels best in their hand and...
Sometimes, like yesterday, I wind up blurting out "You say you don't even know how to shoot a pistol at all and you're sitting here worried about certain details of the trigger pull and how the gun sits in your hand and hammers and strikers and what you read on the internet and it's all just bunk. How the gun feels in your hand, unloaded and not shooting and standing at the display counter, has nothing to do with how well you're going to shoot the gun. That can only be measured with scoring rings and a timer.
Look, we don't carry junk brands of guns here. The fact of the matter is that we could pull five guns at random out of these showcases, stuff 'em in a pillowcase, give it a spin, and if you reached in there, grabbed one out at random, took the little two-hour basic handgun class from our trainer, bought a case of ammo and really applied yourself to shooting the thing and regular dry-fire practice, you will be lights out with it unless you're just completely physically inept."
Last edited by Tamara; 01-05-2016 at 10:52 AM.
It's Dunning-Kruger Discount Day at the local gun store and range!
I only give advice to folks who I know and ask a serious question. The problem with training/competition and males is that when you start you can stink at a manly (this is for men) dominance activity. You fail as a warrior. Thus, talk gear rather than talk or test skills.
It was like lifting weights. At first, I couldn't lift anything but my buddy was a pro lifter type and eventually I became decent.
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