Talking gear encourages emphasis on the wrong part of the equation

[HopetonBrown]

There have been some recent threads on P-F from new members about which gun to carry, or which pistol action is better. Later in the thread after being asked, the original poster says he has had no formal training. I seem to have this conversation frequently at a range I shoot at. People with no formal training want to know what gun for home defense, or which caliber, or which Glock trigger is best.

When I ask if they've ever had formal training, I usually get "no, but..."

1. "No but... the guy that owns the range I shoot on was in Vietnam".
2. "No but... my uncle is a sheriff"
3. "No but... I've been hunting since I was 12"
4. "No but... my buddies and I do drills we see on YouTube out in the desert"

Am I encouraging bad behavior by talking about trigger mods or which Glock Gen is better with people who would probably be better served investing that time and brain power into seeking out professional instruction? Or should I just quit being Capt. Buzzkill and tell them how yes, I like the TTI connector better than the Ghost connector?

[Luke]

I've turned into a giant snob. I refuse to talk guns with others. I went with my dad to 2 local big box stores last week that sold guns and every time we got to the counter I had to walk away. I just can't do it. The amount of dumb surrounding the firearm community is mind boggling. if I hear people talking about guns and they want me to join I ask two questions, have you had formal training and do you shoot some sort of matches? If the answers no to both I'm already weasleing my way out the door. It's not the nicest thing to do but I just can't handle it.

So my advise is just smile and nod if this is your profession, obviously promote training but other than that smile and wave..

And I know we all start somewhere.. But WOW.

[45dotACP]

I try to avoid engaging in discussions that have the potential to become derperiffic...as a rule anything that starts with "Glock vs..." I try to avoid. Otherwise, I say "depends on the shooter" for a lot....

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[Chuck Haggard]

All that is necessary for the triumph of derp is that good men do nothing..............

[VegasHK]

Being a full time instructor, I guess you could say I "shoot for a living". The amount of disinformation, and absolute bad information out there is incredible. I absolutely avoid being sucked in if I can help it. When I'm asked direct questions I definately fall back on: "there is no hard fast, there are variables."

When I have recruits that we are teaching, I will give them my true, honest opinion, but they are there to be taught, and they want to learn. Tommy Tactical that just wants to discuss 9mm vs. .40 or Glock vs. Sig, I avoid like the plague.

[YVK]

"Seek professional training" has become one of cookie cutter responses that have started to irritate me. Absence of formal training doesn't disqualify a person from seeking the best gear, whatever "best" means, or even suggests wrong priorities. I would share with anyone who's dumb enough to ask for my opinion; fortunately, nobody is asking.

[JodyH]

I stopped giving advice to the majority of people who ask me about guns.
I'm tired of giving them my opinion based on years of instructing, research, competition, training, observation and testing only to have it completely ignored because their brother in law owns a Taurus and he says it has a lifetime warranty and is just as good for half the money.
Screw 'em. It's not my ass on the line.

[eb07]

I stopped giving advice to the majority of people who ask me about guns.
I'm tired of giving them my opinion based on years of instructing, research, competition, training, observation and testing only to have it completely ignored because their brother in law owns a Taurus and he says it has a lifetime warranty and is just as good for half the money.
Screw 'em. It's not my ass on the line.

That's where I am at. Hours of fielding stupid questions, giving good advice, taking the time to care, then they turn around do the opposite and buy a model 1 parts build with a bsa red dot and a Taurus semi and an uncle mikes cross draw then continue to complain to me and ask questions when their junk is jamming or breaking like I have ownership of their dumb decisions. I just play stupid these days. Not my problem.

[45dotACP]

"Seek professional training" has become one of cookie cutter responses that have started to irritate me. Absence of formal training doesn't disqualify a person from seeking the best gear, whatever "best" means, or even suggests wrong priorities. I would share with anyone who's dumb enough to ask for my opinion; fortunately, nobody is asking.

Canned responses aren't necessarily an evil...

"Buy a Glock. Get some training. Practice a lot. Read or watch Ben Stoeger's 'foundations' and work on that" is about the only advice I'll give to someone who asks "What gun should I buy?" or "What gun is the best?"

When it all boils down to it, if you encounter the rare enough experience where you need to cap a bad guy, you'll likely be just fine with any gun that will cycle through a full magazine with no problems. A glock, a 1911, a revolver, a Sig, a Smith and Wesson or a Beretta will all work. Dare I say it...even a Taurus might do for a shot or two. If you want to know what works the best though, you'll need to shoot a lot.

When you shoot a lot, you'll discover a lot of the so called "facts" you read on gun fora are probably just a lot of oft repeated "anecdata" thrown out and pulled in by various gun nerds and...let's call them "Gear enthusiasts"

Glocks are uncomfortable, 1911's are unreliable, a heavy DA revolver trigger is unshootable, a Sig slide will never stay open because your thumb is always on the release switch, a Smith and Wesson won't hit the broadside of a barn and a Beretta's safety/decocker will accidentally engage and kill you on the streets. All of these things are apparently true on the internet, so anymore, I just don't bother saying "well...maybe not. Have you tried shooting the gun?"

After all...who am I to argue with the immense and incredible knowledge of AR15.com or Glocktalk...

[nwhpfan]

"Seek professional training" has become one of cookie cutter responses that have started to irritate me. Absence of formal training doesn't disqualify a person from seeking the best gear, whatever "best" means, or even suggests wrong priorities. I would share with anyone who's dumb enough to ask for my opinion; fortunately, nobody is asking.

Amen...

I mean, if pretty much "everyone that's anyone" learned from Rob Leatham and/or Jerry Barnhart, or some lineage thereof....

I want to learn from the guys that trained Rob and Jerry.

Is their something to it that of the most capable people in the use of firearms, rifles, shotguns, handguns happen to be self taught?

I'm not so sure I would tell somebody to go take a class; there are some very, very good trainers out there but at the same time the qualification these days seems to be to raise your hand and declare yourself a trainer... Oh, and some good video equipment and editing skills.

Maybe some basic "don't shoot your eye out stuff" and the advice to get ammo and make noise. Pretty much everything you need to know actually "is" on the internet...or the pre internet place of information; a book.