Self defense against neighbor's dog?

[Hambo]

you are afraid the snake will bite your dog.

In my case that's true, and the only reason I concern myself with snakes at all. I know many people who kill every single snake they see, which is Florida is quite a few, most of which are harmless. These dog defense threads pop up often enough that I think there are a lot of people with dog phobias.

[Vinh]

It's ridiculous good people have to modify their behavior (air horns for bikes and walking around, less lethal, etc) because of bad owners. Take the bite, shoot the dog, train one-handed manipulations, prepare for retaliation against your family. Don't waste your life thinking about how to go out of your way to avoid harming the fecal dog/owner. If not this one, there will be another.

[olstyn]

I have a German Shepard that couldn't give 2 shits less about high lumen flashlights. I wouldn't count on that doing much.

That's why I asked. Thanks for the real-world experience.

#1) carry a less lethal option.
#2) When you know for a 100% certainty you are the target of a blood-enraged large breed dog--DO NOT GO HANDS ON. Yeah they aren't cane corsos but any large breed over 50 lbs will give you, the folks you are with, or your dog a VERY expensive trip to the hospital and at a minimum ruin your month. Along with this...read up on dog body language.
#3) The dog's owner WILL BE WORSE THAN THE DOG if you have to put it down. Thus 'less lethal it' and move on.
#4) I suggest NOT talking to the dog's owner and instead if a conversation must take place about the owner's ability to control the animal, let the police do it.. I can't emphasize this enough. No need to get into verbal judo, that may escalate, over a dog issue.
#5) Shooting an attacking dog is WAY harder than it looks or seems.

All of that makes sense, although I still feel like I should talk to the owner, because ultimately, conflicts are his fault and responsibility, not his dog's. If he blows me off, then at least I walk away knowing I tried. I will definitely look up some info on dog body language. I know enough to know that I could stand to learn a lot more, at bare minimum the difference between a dog that's bluffing and a dog that really means it.

It's ridiculous good people have to modify their behavior (air horns for bikes and walking around, less lethal, etc) because of bad owners. Take the bite, shoot the dog, train one-handed manipulations, prepare for retaliation against your family. Don't waste your life thinking about how to go out of your way to avoid harming the fecal dog/owner. If not this one, there will be another.

That's a pretty bleak view. I'm not looking at serious modification of my life over it; I honestly started this thread because I was curious where others would draw the line in a similar situation. Looks like a lot of people would opt to get bitten, which I'm not too keen on, although I guess it's better from both social and litigation standpoints.

These dog defense threads pop up often enough that I think there are a lot of people with dog phobias.

I'm not dog-phobic; in fact I like dogs, and the majority of dogs I meet seem to respect me. Also, I didn't panic the other night; I just started thinking that it might be good to have a more well-defined "line in the sand" with regard to aggro dogs.

[drjaydvm]

Most dogs are all bark and no bite. Your typical suburban large breed dog is most likely just posturing if it charges and barks at you. Feral dogs, a pack of pit bulls running around, etc is different can of worms. Trust me, people go bananas when someone harms their dog- whether justified or not. I'm the one who has to deal with them and the injured pet at the emergency vet. I have a pretty good feel for dog behavior after 25 years in veterinary medicine, and I don't think that in the majority of the situations like you described lethal force is needed.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I think talking to the owner is the thing a good person and neighbor ought to do. After the incident has settled. Talking to the owner when tensions may be high is an awful idea, as fixer has found out personally if I recall correctly.

My dog hates air horns. So that seems reasonable. I've had great results using OC to dissuade loose dogs when walking. 3 times, I think. Maybe 4. A good shot ahead of the nose from a stream sprayer and away it goes.

I do agree with the above notion that a vast majority of dogs in the circumstances you are encountering this one will be dissuaded by firm language and strong posture on your part.


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[olstyn]

I don't think that in the majority of the situations like you described lethal force is needed.

I don't disagree; I'm just trying to figure out where the line is. After reading some of the earlier replies, I started googling around for dog body language and behavior stuff, but I came up kind of empty regarding the difference between a dog that's bluffing and a dog that seriously wants to do harm. It seems like the differences might be subtle.

I do agree with the above notion that a vast majority of dogs in the circumstances you are encountering this one will be dissuaded by firm language and strong posture on your part.

And that's exactly how this worked out. I don't think there are any real tensions at this point, and I intend to be friendly rather than confrontational when I talk to the owner. Hopefully it's received well, and if not, as I said earlier, at least I'll have tried.

[drjaydvm]

Head down, tail not wagging, fast trot directly towards you, low growl- I'm worried. Lots of woofing and stomping- not worried, just bluffing usually. Dogs usually respond to aggressive movement and noise on your part by backing off.

[BaiHu]

Head down, tail not wagging, fast trot directly towards you, low growl- I'm worried. Lots of woofing and stomping- not worried, just bluffing usually. Dogs usually respond to aggressive movement and noise on your part by backing off.

Maybe a separate thread needs to be made, but I'd love to hear you talk about "leashed" behavior. I find that dogs being restrained makes humans & dogs alike think something worse than posturing is going on.

I often quip that my dog says "I want to play" in German and German never sounds nice.

[drjaydvm]

I think dogs behave badly on the leash the same reason certain ones behave badly when I walk in an exam room- they are either being protective of the owner or think they can behave aggressively because they have back up (the owner) if someone calls their bluff. My solution in the hospital is to remove the dog from the owner. You'd be surprised how docile/scared they become if the owner isn't with them.

[BaiHu]

I think dogs behave badly on the leash the same reason certain ones behave badly when I walk in an exam room- they are either being protective of the owner or think they can behave aggressively because they have back up (the owner) if someone calls their bluff. My solution in the hospital is to remove the dog from the owner. You'd be surprised how docile/scared they become if the owner isn't with them.

Thanks for confirming my beliefs. I've always felt like letting my dog off leash "to meet" the dog he's posturing towards or vice versa would end in a quick "play pounce" and new friend or a quick territorial gnash of teeth and wrestling and then it'd be done. But we don't live in that kind of world.

Kids nor dogs run free outside to make friends and learn to deal with bullies on their own anymore.