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Thread: Let's talk about handgun FMJ effectiveness

  1. #21
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    I don't know why the word "derp" used in a sentence is so funny to me, but a couple of you have had me laughing pretty good. And I usually don't even crack a smile at what others "lol" at. Thanks also for the numbers that are starting to come in.
    Last edited by Welder; 12-28-2015 at 05:51 PM.
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  2. #22
    My simple advice: Listen to the experts. That includes, first and foremost, Doc, but also a number of the people who have already commented here.

    All of them come out the same place. If you are using a pistol (because a long gun won't work for whatever reason), first, hit your target in good locations. Second use quality hollowpoints, in part to improve your chances in part to not hit the little girl down the street. Third, once you have those quality hollowpoints, stop worrying about it and go back to the first point. Good hits work. Bad hits not so much.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    We had a thread about this before right?

    My take on it...when you know 100% that you'll be shooting people then yes jhp is probably good to go.

    However we are rarely faced with a non barriered threat, there is usually the potential for shooting through doors, vehicles, etc and jhp dont do that great on any of that, but fmj do.
    So my HST 147's won't penetrate a given barricade but an FMJ of similar weight/velocity will?
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    That all is likely true, I really have no idea (though it is the Times), but in that same period, ball put down a lot of people very effectively. Not arguing for ball, just saying.
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  5. #25
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post

    However we are rarely faced with a non barriered threat, there is usually the potential for shooting through doors, vehicles, etc and jhp dont do that great on any of that, but fmj do.
    That is completely untrue.

    Bo
    nded JHPs, or solid copper bullets like the DPX, do far better in such barriers overall. FMJs bullets tend to be built to be cheap, they are non bonded jacketed cup-and-core bullets or cheaply plated. My experience in shooting up a lot of cars and other barriers, and in observation of real world shootings, is that something like the 124gr Gold Dot does consistently better than bullets like the 124gr NATO ball (to keep as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as possible...)


    Another factor often not considered is that FMJ is built to be cheap and for practice, the QC put into duty grade JHPs is NOT being used on the FMJs. Possible exception is the NATO ball being built and sold in the 9mm.
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
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  6. #26
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    The "perhaps the majority are shot in the arms" is bullshit. TOTAL bullshit. Not exiting the arm is also total bullshit, unless you're using one of those stupid-ass fragmenting ultralight rounds because you were impressed by the Muzzle Energy numbers and some yahoo's Youtube channel.

    Shot placement matters more than anything. Luck is a solid second. As has been noted, sometimes bullets just do weird shit in the human body.

    I've worked a lot of people shot over the years, easily in the triple digits. I surely don't care about marketing or the "latest thing". I still carry a DA/SA pistol or a revolver, still think .45 is pretty cool, and wear a fedora. I base my decisions on what I see working and not working in real shootings as other folks beta test the latest and greatest. I carry bonded HP in all my carry guns, primary or backup.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    IIRC the NYPD started with FMJ’s when they went from the .38 revolver to the 9mm pistol. Someone here probably knows better than I but if memory serves they dumped ball ammo because of poor performance and over penetration.
    In one of the Caliber Press Street Survival books, there is a photograph of a miscreant citizen that Riverside, Kaliforniastan PD shot thirty-three: that's 33: times with their then-new S&W M-59s, using Remington ball. Ron Adams was there; he told me they shot the living shit out of that dude, all at close range, but it took a detective with a shorty Python to put him down.

    In the same book, there's a photo of the polar bear that the NYC transit cop put down with ONE round of .38 158gr RNL.

    Moral of the story; it ain't over until its over.

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  8. #28
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    Having shot critters with 230 grain FMJ (while I don't feel unarmed with it) left me pretty disappointed. Killing pigs with 124 grain Gold Dots worked pretty well........

    When shot in the right places.

    (might be a clue)
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    In one of the Caliber Press Street Survival books, there is a photograph of a miscreant citizen that Riverside, Kaliforniastan PD shot thirty-three: that's 33: times with their then-new S&W M-59s, using Remington ball. Ron Adams was there; he told me they shot the living shit out of that dude, all at close range, but it took a detective with a shorty Python to put him down.

    In the same book, there's a photo of the polar bear that the NYC transit cop put down with ONE round of .38 158gr RNL.

    Moral of the story; it ain't over until its over.

    .
    The actual moral is that NY cops are much better shooters than the commie side of the country:-)
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    This ^^^

    EMTdood has maybe 150 hours of training and nine years of experience hauling grandma to the hospital, but he knows more than all the people who have researched wound ballistics to this point.
    I had a bit more than 150 hours of training, and am proud of my time in EMS and the things I learned while working.....

    ...but I'm fairly certain that dissecting terminal wound ballistics wasn't something that the field teaches you anything about.

    Check that.....

    It taught me that handguns suck, and shotguns are tremendously awesome at destroying the human body. Anything more than that, and people are probably just making shit up.
    Last edited by TGS; 12-28-2015 at 08:22 PM.
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