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Thread: More Trigger Finger, Really?

  1. #111
    Site Supporter taadski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dove View Post
    Agreed re the value in having one technique for both scenarios.
    Perfect…


    Quote Originally Posted by dove View Post
    I think the DA/SA thing is really another boat from the 1-hand 2-hand thing: talking about making precise changes immediately after your first shot and before your second is really worlds away from talking about how one chooses to shoot one-handed vs two-handed.
    Perhaps, until you have to make the adjustment (two handed to one, or vice versa) in the heat of the moment at speed. Something that is pretty plausible during the implementation of a firearm.


    Quote Originally Posted by dove View Post
    It goes without saying that the above is not intended to come off as an attack or retaliation, and I definitely don't take anything about this conversation personally.
    Nope, not personal. Just trying to help ya.


    t

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by taadski View Post
    Perhaps, until you have to make the adjustment (two handed to one, or vice versa) in the heat of the moment at speed. Something that is pretty plausible during the implementation of a firearm.
    Fair point. What happens at draw time strikes me as particularly relevant here.

    Not really a case for how one's technique may differ weak-hand only, but I get the point.

  3. #113
    Site Supporter Irelander's Avatar
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    I have short fingers. When I "sink" my finger into my Gen3 G19 I can barely get to the first crease in my trigger finger. I have to roll the gun around to get all the way into the first crease. I have issues with throwing shots to the left. Sometimes this makes me think that Glocks are not for me. Yet when I slow down and focus on the perfect trigger pull I can center things up very well. This just helps me understand that I need to dry fire and live fire practice more often.
    Jesus paid a debt he did not owe,
    Because I owed a debt I could not pay.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irelander View Post
    I have short fingers. When I "sink" my finger into my Gen3 G19 I can barely get to the first crease in my trigger finger. I have to roll the gun around to get all the way into the first crease. I have issues with throwing shots to the left. Sometimes this makes me think that Glocks are not for me. Yet when I slow down and focus on the perfect trigger pull I can center things up very well. This just helps me understand that I need to dry fire and live fire practice more often.
    In your case, having smaller hands, try less finger - using the tip / hook and curl. It will also help avoid "biceping" .

    As stated earlier, I have XXL hands and both more and less trigger finger works for me with the Glock.

    You have to experiment and do what Works for you.
    Last edited by HCM; 01-18-2016 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #115
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    So since the beginning of the year I've spent a lot of time on the range bonding with my Glocks (19,22,35,42 and 43)

    Running more finger on the trigger works pretty good with the bigger guns, but my results are inconsistent with the G42 and G43. I have fairly big hands and long fingers.

    Experimentation continues . . .

  6. #116
    Member dustyvarmint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    I've "cured" many of our officers from shooting left (of course with lefties it's the opposite...) with their Glocks via having them get the first crease on the trigger and run it like one would a DA revolver.
    I was lucky enough to take 2 classes with Chuck this year (3rd Haggard class) - this trigger finger development, which was really just a side comment Chuck made in break small talk and that I picked up on, has been one of the 2 single most important advancements I've made. And I'm a mildly paced training ho. The other, a grip technique, also came from Chuck.

    happy shooting, Jerry
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  7. #117
    I am no expert but I don’t feel it matters how much finger is used. If I welded a pistol to a two ton block of steel and pulled the trigger the gun’s point of aim isn’t going to change. I can jerk the trigger and it will still shoot POA. To me the trigger isn’t as much as an issue than grip is. If the trigger pull is affecting the POA, it’s more than likely a grip issue as the trigger finger shouldn’t be moving POA to begin with. The gun should not be moving upon pulling the trigger to begin with.

    A bad grip or a weak grip are equally bad. Bad grip from the start pulling to the left generally supporting hand thumb not pressing against the frame which takes practice to learn. Weak grip that’s technically right but the firearm shifts round after round after recoil. Grip training is important. Not as much as a crushing grip but a strong grip that lasts. You may believe you have a strong grip, but you still need to work on it if you want to get to the next level. If you want to shoot fast you will be jerking the trigger back in rapid succession and have recoil on top of the shooting. You’ll have to keep accuracy with the grip and minimize the weapon shifting in your hand under recoil.

    Then there’s practicing. Practicing relentlessly from a draw is very important and going to the range frequently. Hitting the range 4 times a year or less isn’t going to get one familiarized to getting a good crushing grip. A strong proper grip where you see the blood being squeezed from the fingers from the first to last shot. It sounds simple, in reality it takes a bit of range time to master. Your hands should feel like octopuses on the weapon. A good solid grip and no matter what you do to the trigger the POA is not moving.

    Again I’m no expert. This has worked for me.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk View Post
    I am no expert but I don’t feel it matters how much finger is used. If I welded a pistol to a two ton block of steel and pulled the trigger the gun’s point of aim isn’t going to change. I can jerk the trigger and it will still shoot POA. To me the trigger isn’t as much as an issue than grip is. If the trigger pull is affecting the POA, it’s more than likely a grip issue as the trigger finger shouldn’t be moving POA to begin with. The gun should not be moving upon pulling the trigger to begin with.

    A bad grip or a weak grip are equally bad. Bad grip from the start pulling to the left generally supporting hand thumb not pressing against the frame which takes practice to learn. Weak grip that’s technically right but the firearm shifts round after round after recoil. Grip training is important. Not as much as a crushing grip but a strong grip that lasts. You may believe you have a strong grip, but you still need to work on it if you want to get to the next level. If you want to shoot fast you will be jerking the trigger back in rapid succession and have recoil on top of the shooting. You’ll have to keep accuracy with the grip and minimize the weapon shifting in your hand under recoil.

    Then there’s practicing. Practicing relentlessly from a draw is very important and going to the range frequently. Hitting the range 4 times a year or less isn’t going to get one familiarized to getting a good crushing grip. A strong proper grip where you see the blood being squeezed from the fingers from the first to last shot. It sounds simple, in reality it takes a bit of range time to master. Your hands should feel like octopuses on the weapon. A good solid grip and no matter what you do to the trigger the POA is not moving.

    Again I’m no expert. This has worked for me.
    Yes, but no.

    The Glock is sensitive to both grip and trigger finger placement.

    In particular, if you were to look at the profile of the Glock trigger from the top you will see that the trigger face is rounded unlike most triggers which have a flat face, at least as viewed from the top. In addition to the rounded trigger face, you have the inertia or drop safety “flipper” in the middle at the apex of the curve as viewed from the top.

    Right handed shooters pushing shots directly left / 9 o’clock are often the result of the shooter engaging only the left side of the trigger and the flipper. As a result, they are pulling the trigger on a 10 o’clock - 4 o’clock axis rather than straight back on a 12 o’clock- 6 o’clock axis. This is the “curvature” issue Dove referenced earlier. It is also why aftermarket flat triggers for Glocks are so popular.

    For myself, engaging a stock Glock trigger with either the tip or the crease will give me contact with both sides of the trigger and allow me to pull straight back. Using the middle of the pad will push shots left to 9 o’clock. These results are consistent for me one handed or two handed. I run the crease as it is more consistent for me at full speed.

    Shots elsewhere, such as high left (11 o’clock) are often a grip issue. Usually milking or heeling by a right hander.

    There is a school of thought that a crush grip can mask all trigger issues. This is true but only up to a point depending on grip strength, technique and frequency of practice.

    Reality is I have 700 shooters at work and over 600 of them will never shoot more than 4 times a year so what a Rob Leatham, a Tim Herron or a Bob Vogel can do with a crush grip has limited application.
    Last edited by HCM; 12-17-2019 at 11:10 PM.

  9. #119
    It depends on the shooter and the weapon. There is no single best answer. Anyone who says that there is a one size fits all answer is most likely shortsighted and/or not skilled enough or too lazy to work it out on a shooter by shooter basis.

  10. #120
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    I agree it depends on the shooter and the weapon; but I have a friend who is a very very experienced 1911 shooter. Many classes and decades of training; he recently went to a Pat Mac class -his shooting improved with more trigger. He was shooting well to begin with but he said more finger helped. He smoked the next qual he did. IDK; is it just trying something new and concentrating on the trigger press more? Or is it physical advantageous for certain people with certain gun designs? Said friend and I just went to lunch and we talked about the departments new officers. They want a hardware solution to a software problem. We used to issue Colt 1911s. My friend and I were the range instructors and armorers. When we retired the department went to HK VP9s. They wanted a modern gun. If I was still there I would remind the new guys - “it’s the Indian ; not the arrow”. My advice for issued guns? Train, dry fire, get married to the platform and don’t stray. Strive for unconscious competence which leads to confidence in performance. I would tell them it’s like the campaign hat. It doesn’t fit and it is uncomfortable when it’s first issued. Wear it long enough and your head will change to fit it and you will get used to it. But unfortunately most people just need more range time and experience with a good coach/ instructor; not a target scorer. Not range masturbation to produce brass. I admit training hard with a goal does take some of the fun out of shooting- it’s hard work. But what is the goal? My final thought on trigger press-the speed/ and or quality of my press depends on the size of the target, the distance of the shot and the speed/urgency of the shot. The attacker with a contact weapon running at me at 2 yards doesn’t need a precise press. I need speed and accuracy. The attacker shooting at you 30 yards away using cover with only a small part exposed? You need precision accuracy; which means a precise trigger press. ( or bounce them into him, but that’s a tactic/ shooting technique)
    Last edited by Poconnor; 12-19-2019 at 04:22 AM.

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