No kidding!Originally Posted by CCT125US
No kidding!
Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
Lord of the Food Court
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I use one handed shooting as an evaluation method for what works well without the additional stability afforded by the support hand. If I'm able to press the trigger well one handed with a given trigger finger position, why would I want to modify that with two hands just because I can get away with it?
I can get away with pretty much whatever trigger position and still get very little sight movement in slow fire with a good two handed grip. It only starts to manifest as a problem as speed increases or under less ideal grip circumstances. My point is, if a given trigger finger position works well with only one hand, perhaps it's a better solution two handed too?
Edit: Dove, your post is what provoked my thoughts. Forgot to quote.
Last edited by taadski; 01-07-2016 at 03:00 PM.
THAT! Only fairly recently did I start to "sink" my finger freestyle as much as I did when shooting SHO/WHO. I am very happy with the consistency.
Now for another wrench, my finger is long enough to sink it across the trigger to the crease or just past it, without doing the H grip Mr. White illustrated. But, when I do my trigger finger makes contact with the frame on that strong side outside of the gun.
Recall that is one of Surf's recommendations to NEVER NEVER do. However I have seen nothing but improvement across a range of shooting tasks (3x5 walkback, The Test, PistolNOW, D1 to 12 yard plates, D1 to 25 yard headbox in 2-3 sec etc) this way (trigger finger sunk with frame contact) so I'm not sweating it.
Last edited by JHC; 01-07-2016 at 03:25 PM.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
I'm glad you posted that, because I asked myself exactly the same question. It seemed ridiculous to me, and it's not something I'm ready to start doing without having a good reason to back it up. So, here's what I came up with after thinking about it for a while:
Positions have benefits and drawbacks. Sinking more finger in gives you more leverage, but as Mr. White points out and I mentioned earlier, it messes up getting a perfect grip and thus reduces recoil control for some people. Sinking more finger also can allow one to wrap the curvature of the Glock trigger, thus avoiding certain accuracy issues. At the same time, sinking more finger can lead to frame contact a la what Surf talks about, leading to other accuracy issues.
For me: I do not get the benefits of wrapping the trigger curvature, I can do that with the pad. Going to the first joint, however, does cause me to shift my grip very slightly and adds much more trigger-finger frame contact, two problems I don't have using the center of the pad. So, the only real (theoretical) benefit it gives me, as far as I can tell, is leverage.
One-handed, that leverage is a huge benefit to me. I have often been -4 or -5 on Dots 5 and 8 in Dot Torture at 5 yards. Last night I was -2 and -1 at 7 yards, even with a bunch of presses that felt bad. I attribute that to sinking the finger. My recoil control sucks one-handed so much that any losses there are irrelevant.
Two-handed, I haven't been able to develop extremely consistent results between the pad and the first joint. If they were truly the same, then I'd agree with you and say run the same thing all the time. But, I have felt myself pull a few shots with the first joint that I attributed to that position. I still need to better convince myself that that's not just due to the awkwardness. But, even if that's not the case, I'm compromising my grip.
tl;dr, I'm not completely sold yet, but I think the tradeoffs work out for me such that I benefit from using the first joint SH/WH, and that it is strictly worse 2-handed. Moreover, for the sake of the abstract argument here, even if I end up convincing myself that that's not true for me, I am now pretty thoroughly convinced that it could be true for someone.
Last edited by GRV; 01-07-2016 at 11:15 PM. Reason: grammar
The ideal trigger finger position is one the allows you to press the trigger straight back to the rear most consistently.
Ideal trigger finger position depends on:
-hand size
-the gun
-how much shooting hand wraps around gun (your technique)
You change any one of those variables and the ideal trigger finger position changes too. I use slightly more finger on a Glock 19 than a Sig 226 for example.
I'm issued a Sig P226 for work. I have small hands. The ideal location for MY finger on the Sig is tip of the finger. I use that whether shooting two handed or one handed. I don't need extra leverage for the double action press. As long as I have my finger position right, I can still be aggressive on the trigger and get my hits.
I would add "type of shooting" to your list. The finger position that works for shooting a B8 slow fire might not be best for action shooting.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I would disagree. I used the same technique to score a 290 on the FBI bullseye course as I do to shoot sub 3 second bill drills from concealment. A straight to the rear press that minimizes disturbance of the sights is the same, whether slow fire or at speed.
I would actually substitute "finger position" with "gun" as a more accurate statement in my experience. For me, certain guns/trigger setups allow for more consistent accuracy, like ringing steel at 100 yards. Other guns allow for better shooting at speed.
T., I did it too and recently stopped. I was setting my finger position on Beretta using one handed, both right and left hands, wall drill in double action. Used the same logic, if I can pull 10 lbs with one hand and not disturb...
Ended up realizing that this has led to a suboptimal, too deep, finger position for SA shots. Wasnt immediately apparent with big targets like at Rogers or IDPA, but when I started to shoot more dots and 25 yard drills, it became clear. I am now learning a DA shot with less finger.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
Y,
Just to be clear. I wan't making any individual suggestions for one trigger location or another. Only that *I* advocate vetting one's chosen trigger technique one-handed and that if it doesn't work well there, perhaps that's an indication that it's not ideal for two-handed shooting either.
For DA/SA shooters, I actually often suggest folks work backward from a known and established single action press. So as to familiarize them with where their DA press needs to start in order to finish there, if that makes sense. And finger position-wise, that may be the finger tip, on the pad or in the crease depending on the shooter/platform.
t
I have the opposite scenario. I am issued a G23 for work and shoot a Sig P228 for range fun. My finger placement on the Glock is exactly what I did on the K-frame Smiths I started with. First joint of the finger. I do the same thing with the DA pull of the SIG and get a good hit and almost always jerk the SA shot that follows. Then there is the long reset which should not be an issue, but is. Have been sorely tempted to either convert it to DAO or buy a P250 to keep things somewhat consistent.
If I really wanted to be a TDA masochist, I could break out the 92FC with the stock mainspring...
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