THIS.Originally Posted by 41magfan
I discovered this auto-slide-forward capability on M&PFS but never liked it---it was not a reliable means of forwarding the slide into battery, and the round would not reliably feed properly when it did.
I believe a gun should operate only and always by the operator's specific, deliberate intent, and such should be reliable and repeatable. This auto-forwarding was only one of several reasons why I sold the M&P.
If it does it all the time it is a good thing. It is faster. Getting back to the shooting is most important. A true auto forward is just that. You insert the mag, the slide goes forward automatically. If you don't need to waste time hitting the slide release or racking the slide, that is a good thing.
Now....if it does not happen all the time, if it is a combination of pressure on the slide release and it doesn't always work, that is not ideal.
I have never, ever, ever, inserted a magazine and “then” had the slide auto forward and there not be round not be in the chamber...ever!!!! In fact, absent a malfunctioning broken magazines I don’t think that is even possible.
I have done it myself (only recently with a gun that doesn't always auto forward for me), and seen other people prematurely engage the slide release and send the slide home on an empty chamber. That is not ideal and was my response going from a gun that "always" auto forwarded to one that didn't.
With HK’s and M&P I would run a gun to auto forward and I do think that is a bonus feature and a good thing.
Last edited by nwhpfan; 12-21-2015 at 03:03 PM.
A71593
As a generalization, the negatives from what I see of those who auto-forward as a default is this...
They are generally not as smooth, efficient nor as fast on the reload as they could be. They tend to be more deliberate (slower) on how they line up the mag for the insertion, deliberate (slower) on how they initially place the mag into the magwell and they then tend to hover for a moment before they do a harder insertion in the magwell than is needed. In other words they are slower overall in their reload due mostly to the lack of efficiency than if they were to use a more efficient and a deliberate slide stop method.
Then if for some reason the weapon fails to auto-forward, they often end up slapping the bottom of the mag or running the slide with an overhand or slingshot, but generally end up re-slapping the bottom of the mag. Not so funny when a round pops up out of the mag and causes a worse problem. I also do not tend to approve of the angle of the muzzle of the weapon because many guys will hold the mag and weapon in a certain orientation to get a reliable auto-forward. This orientation that I often see is not what I accept.
I have had a few people say that their pistol ALWAYS auto-forwards not matter what, particularly Sig and M&P guys. I then take their pistol, run it and show them that it does not have to do it. Which usually leads into me teaching them a more efficient reload to include a separate or deliberate slide stop method. With ~100% success all have become more efficient and faster on their overall reload.
Seen many failures to feed and the infamous flinch and click on a dead chamber. Rounds popping out the top, or base plates coming off and dumping spring, follower and ammo while not as common I have seen it enough. On the good side, it usually only takes someone with one experience of a base plate coming off to change their bad habit. Generally this phenomenon is not seen on a Glock as it is not so easy to get the base plate off.
Most if not all auto-forwarders perceive themselves to be faster. I am 100% convinced, not 99.9% convinced, that I can take any person who auto-forwards and make them more efficient and faster in a very very short period of time. I am just as fast with a correct slide stop reload as I am with a pure speed reload where I just dump a partial mag with round in chamber and insert a new mag. I can get people very near or to that point with a bit more time.
Both of my M&P's are also on command. I love it for IDPA, as it shaves off a fraction of a second. I've never had any malfunctions doing this.
Last edited by agksimon; 12-21-2015 at 07:59 PM.
My M&Ps could do it on command, and if I wailed on my training G19 (didn't want to beat on my carry gun like that), it would do it pretty consistently.
I once had an extremely cocky defense attorney who was representing a young man who had negligently shot his father in the arm with an M&P and a perfect storm of ignorance and screw ups (Glock shooter trying to field-strip dad's M&P Compact with a mag safety...thought he had to pull the trigger like his Glock, but needed a magazine inserted to do so + blindly grabbing a carry mag full of .40 hollowpoints + poor muzzle awareness as he puled said trigger = bad day for all), and the attorney tried to convince me that the gun had slam fired, and that "there are articles all over the Internet about this particular brand of gun," so therefore the case should be dismissed. I found the next minute and a half to be very amusing as I educted him on the differences between auto-forwarding and slam fires, M&P safety mechanisms, and which of those M&Ps were actually known for. I don't believe he found said minute and a half as amusing as I did. His client took a plea (but one that didn't ruin his life forever, and still allowed him to vote against Obama, which was one of his biggest concerns...)
Super Dave says it's bad for the magazine followers as it tends to wear them out.
Men freely believe that which they desire.
Julius Caesar
I found that I can control auto forwarding, depending on how I seat the magazine. If I seat the magazine with my left palm at a 90° to the barrel axis, the slide will stay retracted and engaged with the slide stop. If I seat the magazine with my left foot palm at a 45 degree angle aiming forwards with my hand towards the muzzle I will get the slide to auto forward every time. With a little practice I can control it reliably. If you think about it from an inertia point of view it is like a mini slide-slingshot. When you seat the magazine at a 45° for angle with your palm, you are causing the frame of the pistol to move forward while the slide stays in position momentarily. This momentarily release of pressure on the slide stop and causes the recoil spring to send the slide forward. If you want the slide to auto forward, seat the mag base pad at an angle forward towards the muzzle. If not, seat it perpendicular to the slide. Your choice.
Last edited by Trigger; 12-22-2015 at 09:56 AM.
My HK P2000 would occasionally do it during qualifications if I were to seat a magazine a little too hard. It was certainly not reliable and I cannot say that it was not partly due to magazines that had a combination of 5,000 rounds through them and dropped on concrete their entire life. Was I also touching the slide release? Possibly. What I am for sure about was that the occurrence of the slide auto-forwarding essentially stopped when I received new magazines. Also, I was certainly slower when it would go forward with a hard seat. My brain would catch it and stumble for a moment. I much prefer to do it myself whether using the slide release or an overhand method.
Our first issue of M&P9's were from the first 1,200 M&P9's produced. Auto forwarding was rarely seen. We issued new guns about 2-3 years ago, and this patch of M&P9's will auto forward if you look at them wrong. The number one issue seen in training over the last couple of years is that when the gun auto forwards during the reloading process, it will pick up a round and load it into the chamber. Most of the time. But not always.
There were enough instances of empty chambers that our range staff now teaches that if your gun auto forwards, to rack the slide again. If you eject a live round, oh well. The thought is that they prefer the officer eject a live round than to continue into an engagement, discover their gun didn't fire and loose time diagnosing that it's an empty chamber. Yes I know that we're only talking about an additional second or two to realize your gun didn't fire, then tap rack bang. But we're not talking shooting a match and loosing a few points. We're talking about an OIS incident where loosing an extra couple of seconds could be catastrophic.
I was highly impressed with the M&P9 during the time I carried my first issued gun (6 years or so). But now, not so much. The auto forwarding when you don't expect it to is one of many things that have turned me off of the platform. Still have to carry one when on the City's time. On my own time, not any more. . .
Last edited by Beat Trash; 12-22-2015 at 10:18 AM.
My Plastic M&P will auto-forward with my normal reload move.
It has properly chambered the top round every time but one.
That might alarm some people and make them condemn whatever technique or gun configuration leads to auto-forward. But I have seen enough blown reloads by conventional means of punching the slide stop or yanking the slide that I figure the slide lock reload is a hazardous procedure no matter how you go about it.
A friend's M&P Pro is not as reliable, but fresh magazine springs helped a lot.
My SA 9mm would auto-forward with its light factory recoil spring but a couple of pounds heavier stopped that. No problem, my Colt and Caspian 1911s don't do it so it is not missed.
My CZ75 will often but not always auto-forward. When it does, it feeds.
A local Glockmonger says he can round the edge of the slide stop to produce repeatable auto-forward.
Now all we need is a pistol that will automatically drop an empty magazine like a Garand spits out an empty clip. "Ping!"
Reply With Quote