P320 consensus

[HCM]

I just bought a 50 rd box of steel-cased Monarch .45 ACP at Academy and shot it out of my P320 with no failures of any kind. It shot well too. But it very clearly had "PPU" stamped on the bottom of the cases.

It has been a while since I shot the steel-cased Monarch 9mm Luger ammo. I do not recall how the cases were marked. It might well have been made by Tula. I looked like Tula but I am not sure I could distinguish between different brands of steel-case ammo without looking at the case markings.

Are you sure those marking said PPU on a steel case?

As far as I know PPU does not make any Steelcase ammunition. The Monarch brass made by PP you is had stamped PP you and marked made in Serbia on the back of the box.

Apparently my information about the monarch Steelcase is out of date. It is no longer made by Tula but it is still made in Russia. It is now made by Barnaul. It is clearly marked made in Russia on the back of the box and the flap shows it is made by Barnaul cartridge works. Barnaul ammunition is normally sold in the US under the Silverbear and brown bear brands and is actually a step up from Tula in terms of quality. They have a head stamp with the caliber marking and the three letter code for Barnaul in Cyrillic lettering. It looks almost like "603".

[pblanc]

Are you sure those marking said PPU on a steel case?

As far as I know PPU does not make any Steelcase ammunition. The Monarch brass made by PP you is had stamped PP you and marked made in Serbia on the back of the box.

Apparently my information about the monarch Steelcase is out of date. It is no longer made by Tula but it is still made in Russia. It is now made by Barnaul. It is clearly marked made in Russia on the back of the box and the flap shows it is made by Barnaul cartridge works. Barnaul ammunition is normally sold in the US under the Silverbear and brown bear brands and is actually a step up from Tula in terms of quality. They have a head stamp with the caliber marking and the three letter code for Barnaul in Cyrillic lettering. It looks almost like "603".

I am pretty sure I did not hallucinate the PPU case stamps but with age, I suppose anything is possible. Since the cases were steel, I did not save any so I have nothing to check now. I do know for certain that the box did not say Barnaul on it. I may stop by my local Academy and take a look at their steel-cased 9mm Luger and .45 ACP later today. If I do, I will report the findings.

[pblanc]

Well, I did drop by Academy and you were correct, HCM. My aged brain must have confused the PPU stamps on the Monarch brass case ammo with the steel case stuff. I was correct in that the .45 ACP ammo does not say Barnaul on the side (at least the boxes I bought) but it does say "Made in Russia" on the back of the box, and the case stamps did look like the Cryllic Barnaul stamp.

Academy was out of the 9mm Luger steel case Monarch ammo but I presume the manufacturer was/is the same. I bought another box of the Monarch steel .45 ACP and shot it today, mostly out of my SIG P320 but a couple of 8rd mags from my Stoeger Cougar 8045. No ignition problems and it seemed to shoot pretty well. I did have one failure to feed in my P320 in which a round did not fully chamber, but a light tap on the back of the slide brought the pistol into battery and it ignited fine.

Sorry all for the unintentional information.

[HCM]

The box is branded monarch. It only says barnaul on the flap that gets tucked in at the end of the box. Those three Cyrillic letters which look vaguely like the number 603 is actually the barnaul head stamp. It is definitely not easy to read on the steel cases. It will say made in Russia on the back.

Quality on the Russian Steelcase stuff is not all equal. Wolf and Barnaul are better quality than Tula. There is a fourth Russian ammunition manufacturer in Novosibirsk. I haven't tried their ammunition, but it's interesting they use the bimetal copper wash steel for the cases as well as the projectiles.


As far as I know Barnaul is the only one of the 4 which also actually produces brass case ammo. Wolf sells a good line of brass case ammo but the pistol ammo is made by Fiocchi and the .223 is m193 from Taiwan. The Taiwanese 223 is actually pretty good.

As noted earlier, I had the same issue you did with a monarch Steelcase round failing to fully chamber.those same rounds dropped into a Glock and fired fine. The P320 is quite accurate. I wonder if some of that accuracy is the result of a tighter, match cut chamber ? Like Kimber 1911's?

[davisj]

Saturday I stopped by a local shop/range to grab some targets and walked out with a 320C, and the targets. I've been interested in the 320 but hadn't fired one and I was also waiting on the new TDL. One of the salesmen let me put 10 rounds through his personal 320c. At 10 yards I shot a 3" group unsupported and didn't notice any comfort/fit issues at all. Later that day I fired ~50 rounds on steel and didn't have any issues. So far so good...today I ordered the IWB3 from Tony then headed to the range with 150 rounds.

This is when the issues began. Today, shooting on paper for the first time I noticed my groups were 1-2" left. Not low and left, just left. For reference, I've been shooting VP9s since they were released almost two years ago and I use the large grip inserts all the way around on them. The 320c has the medium frame. I'm wondering if a large frame would help correct this push. Thoughts?

The more painful issue, which I didn't notice Saturday on the loaner or mine, is that the TDL is wreaking havoc on my support thumb. My 320c is upgraded with the lo-pro TDL (as well as the new slide stop and adverse trigger). My thumb rests in exactly the wrong spot...or my grip is jacked up. On my VP9s, and my Glocks before, I've stippled the frame flats as an index for my support thumb as I use a thumbs forward grip. On the 320c this grip doesn't work for me.

I'm looking for suggestions and even photos of how you grip with your support hand and where you rest your thumb.

I really want to like this gun but it isn't enjoyable to shoot at the moment. I don't want to buy a larger frame until I figure out the support thumb/TDL issue. Shooting a few inches left is tolerable until then. Assuming I can modify my grip for comfort and correct my groupings I've found my new carry gun. If not then I'll either sell this and go back to the VP9 which is a great gun but is just a touch bigger or trade it for a G19. And I thought I was through with the G19...damn you Gaston!

[HCM]

Saturday I stopped by a local shop/range to grab some targets and walked out with a 320C, and the targets. I've been interested in the 320 but hadn't fired one and I was also waiting on the new TDL. One of the salesmen let me put 10 rounds through his personal 320c. At 10 yards I shot a 3" group unsupported and didn't notice any comfort/fit issues at all. Later that day I fired ~50 rounds on steel and didn't have any issues. So far so good...today I ordered the IWB3 from Tony then headed to the range with 150 rounds.

This is when the issues began. Today, shooting on paper for the first time I noticed my groups were 1-2" left. Not low and left, just left. For reference, I've been shooting VP9s since they were released almost two years ago and I use the large grip inserts all the way around on them. The 320c has the medium frame. I'm wondering if a large frame would help correct this push. Thoughts?

The more painful issue, which I didn't notice Saturday on the loaner or mine, is that the TDL is wreaking havoc on my support thumb. My 320c is upgraded with the lo-pro TDL (as well as the new slide stop and adverse trigger). My thumb rests in exactly the wrong spot...or my grip is jacked up. On my VP9s, and my Glocks before, I've stippled the frame flats as an index for my support thumb as I use a thumbs forward grip. On the 320c this grip doesn't work for me.

I'm looking for suggestions and even photos of how you grip with your support hand and where you rest your thumb.

I really want to like this gun but it isn't enjoyable to shoot at the moment. I don't want to buy a larger frame until I figure out the support thumb/TDL issue. Shooting a few inches left is tolerable until then. Assuming I can modify my grip for comfort and correct my groupings I've found my new carry gun. If not then I'll either sell this and go back to the VP9 which is a great gun but is just a touch bigger or trade it for a G19. And I thought I was through with the G19...damn you Gaston!

Does it have the new TD lever or the older one with the shelf? If it has the old one it's an easy swap - call SIG Customer Service. Large Grip frames are available - if no seach the web for an old stock P250C grip frame.

[Doug]

For those interested. Looks like SIG is integrating lasers into the frames

http://www.sigoptics.com/product/lima55/




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[davisj]

Does it have the new TD lever or the older one with the shelf? If it has the old one it's an easy swap - call SIG Customer Service. Large Grip frames are available - if no seach the web for an old stock P250C grip frame.

It has the new take down lever.

[davisj]

Saturday I stopped by a local shop/range to grab some targets and walked out with a 320C, and the targets. I've been interested in the 320 but hadn't fired one and I was also waiting on the new TDL. One of the salesmen let me put 10 rounds through his personal 320c. At 10 yards I shot a 3" group unsupported and didn't notice any comfort/fit issues at all. Later that day I fired ~50 rounds on steel and didn't have any issues. So far so good...today I ordered the IWB3 from Tony then headed to the range with 150 rounds.

This is when the issues began. Today, shooting on paper for the first time I noticed my groups were 1-2" left. Not low and left, just left. For reference, I've been shooting VP9s since they were released almost two years ago and I use the large grip inserts all the way around on them. The 320c has the medium frame. I'm wondering if a large frame would help correct this push. Thoughts?

The more painful issue, which I didn't notice Saturday on the loaner or mine, is that the TDL is wreaking havoc on my support thumb. My 320c is upgraded with the lo-pro TDL (as well as the new slide stop and adverse trigger). My thumb rests in exactly the wrong spot...or my grip is jacked up. On my VP9s, and my Glocks before, I've stippled the frame flats as an index for my support thumb as I use a thumbs forward grip. On the 320c this grip doesn't work for me.

I'm looking for suggestions and even photos of how you grip with your support hand and where you rest your thumb.

I really want to like this gun but it isn't enjoyable to shoot at the moment. I don't want to buy a larger frame until I figure out the support thumb/TDL issue. Shooting a few inches left is tolerable until then. Assuming I can modify my grip for comfort and correct my groupings I've found my new carry gun. If not then I'll either sell this and go back to the VP9 which is a great gun but is just a touch bigger or trade it for a G19. And I thought I was through with the G19...damn you Gaston!

Couldn't edit, adding photos of my grip and a target at 15 yards off hand.

[Luke]

I use the TDL as a thumb rest and haven't had any issues. I do apply light pressure though so my thumb isn't moving around. I LOVE my 320.

I have a similar story on why I went 320.

I used to shoot Thursday night idpa outlaw matches and it was at an indoor range. They had a "gun of the week" that you paid $5 for 5 rounds at 10 yards. Best score in a B8 style target wins $50 gift cirtificate. I shot it with a 320 and won! I new then I was hooked and had to have one. A few weeks later I had my own! LOVE that gun. I suffer with NGSD (new gun syndrome disorder) and ever since I got my 320 I've been content.