Thoughts and an epiphany on manually operated firearms

[Beat Trash]

In a real life OIS incident, a 50% hit ratio is actually pretty good.

Being involved in a critical incident / OIS incident isn't the same as shooting a stage at a 3 gun match or an IDPA match.

[BigT]

The gun in this case was a magic wand with the user believing that having it and shooting in the general vicinity of the bad guys would make the bad things stop. The unspoken qualifier when discussing the advantages and disadvantages of a particular firearm is that the individual is well versed in the operation and the necessity of precision shots.

Holding up a particular firearm and proclaiming it offers a particular advantage or limitation is disingenuous unless one takes into account the skill level of the individual operating it. Just because I own a scientific calculator doesn't mean that I can make use of all it's functions. The same applies to any firearm.

Edit to add: I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding my thoughts to the outcome of the situation.

I do get where you are coming from. My feeling is lots of the dudes making inefficient noise fast with plastic people poppers would be making inefficient noise fast with a low cap handgun, just less of it. The steely eyes mofo's dumping bad guys with a couple well aimed shots with their wheel guns and single stacks would be doing the same thing ,just with more rounds left over with a high cap.

[psalms144.1]

My feeling is lots of the dudes making inefficient noise fast with plastic people poppers would be making inefficient noise fast with a low cap handgun, just less of it. The steely eyes mofo's dumping bad guys with a couple well aimed shots with their wheel guns and single stacks would be doing the same thing ,just with more rounds left over with a high cap.

For the win. How many times do we have to say it's the Indian, not the Arrow? BLUF, if you like a hammer-fired handgun and feel you perform better with it - GREAT! If you like a striker fired pistol and feel you perform better with it - GREAT! Once again, we'd be WAY better served if we spent less time behind the keyboard and more time dry firing or training on the range...

[Dagga Boy]

I think much of this comes back to my original post. With certain systems we have forced deliberateness, with other systems we need to train it. Just shot with GJM and his wife. George came up with a great drill that forces speed shifts and breaking the emotional response. We did similar with a different means (but I will also be using GJM's for future classes and training). The key is to realize it is in issue. Of course, I would prefer to have the trained in means of making it happen versus the forced means. Currently I am using some of the old school systems because our government in some areas are forcing it. Given the choice, I would like to not only select my own preferences for equipment to save my own hide, but also use it as efficiently as possible and with unemotional deliberateness as the goal.

[EM_]

This is a big part of why I'm trying to confine my focus to Bianchi Cup and Steel Challenge, but sadly there aren't any locals for that.

Bianchi was where I started and learned to shoot. I'm far better for it, and it's what I want to get back to (revolver) when I start scratching the competition itch again. Sorry to derail...

Great thread, very interesting, and much I agree with based on what I've observed from some of the steely-eyed old timers who mentored me early in this game.

[SLG]

I agree with Nyeti's premise at the beginning of the thread. I also disagree with it. It's not, and has never been, the weapon. It is the man. Some people need the kick in the pants that a manual operated firearm can give, in order to get their hits. Often they realize this after they have started missing. Many guys have reported this over the years. Same with the idea of a hard front sight focus. It helps to have something to focus on, rather than, OMG!

A deliberate shooter (at whatever speed they are capable of) will get hits. Period. I don't shoot my single shots differently than my semi auto's, I still need to hit with every shot. I once set a bolt gun on full auto and missed with every shot. That was a learning experience for me.