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Thread: Pistol Accuracy at Longer Ranges

  1. #21
    Elmer Keith front sight marked for elevation.

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  2. #22
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    I went out to the range again for a little bit and found out that the 6:00 hold worked better for me at this distance. Putting the rear sight lower wasn't consistent because even holding an 1/8th way down from the front post shot high (first group). I had two sighters on target already so with this 10 shot group I only got 6 hits. The second group was held about 1/4 (1.5") high from the bottom edge.

    Holding the rear sight lower will probably work better at further distances when you can split the front sight in half (easier to eyeball) or marking it like Elmer Keith did.

    The next step is to practice some more and/or find more accurate ammo. Also to find a duty style gun. I feel that shooting CZs, especially an SAO that has some work done to it, is kind of cheating.




    Last edited by johnson; 12-07-2015 at 06:57 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by johnson View Post
    I feel that shooting CZs, especially an SAO that has some work done to it, is kind of cheating.
    No such thing. It's hard enough already. Why make it worse?


    Okie John

  4. #24
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    Just to keep it in the spirit of the thread, in which you probably meant long range shooting with a CCW or duty type gun that you would have on you in case of an active shooter/mass shooting scenario. In all honesty, I'm not a bulls eye shooter but marksmanship with a pistol has never been a huge problem for me after I learned the fundamentals (sight picture, trigger control). They say shooting a perishable skill but I've probably only shot around 500 rounds in the past two years including the same box of 50 from yesterday and today (maybe 1,000 including rimfire) and rarely dry fire. My last training class was probably 5 years ago.

    The draw, press out, sight tracking, transitions, etc. are a whole other story altogether because I don't practice it. Mostly because of local range limitations (1 shot every 3 seconds, so definitely no drills on a timer) and partly because I haven't CCd in years, among other things.

  5. #25
    S.M.E., STAFF, Very Pro Dentist, Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    50 yards is not "long range" for a 9mm, they shoot pretty flat out to 100
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    50 yards is not "long range" for a 9mm, they shoot pretty flat out to 100
    Have you tried out to 100 with a G26? Curious if you saw a big difference between that and the 19? If not what was the farthest and the results?

    I haven't had a chance to try myself. I'll get out there in a week, after hunting season.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Can you share any details of how this pistol differs from a stock Gen4 G17?

    Thanks,


    Okie John
    John - I have no idea. It felt stock (trigger) to me. Only thing different from the Gen4 G19 in my holster was the HD sights. Which look VERY big, especially at 100 yards. Unfortunately, I wasn't there to talk handguns, so I didn't have time to really get into it with the guys at the range. And, frankly, I was more interested to run some rounds through the full auto Thompson they had :-)

  8. #28
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    What's the standard target size that you can see at 100 yards for pistols? My range (Department of Conservation) doesn't allow silhouettes or anything depicting a person so it'll have to be a square or circle. Also, what is the general acceptable group size at that distance? For those shooting silhouettes, is a hit anywhere on the body (18" x ~24") considered "good"?

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Peally's Avatar
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    You could always just cut the head off an IDPA/USPSA target. At 100 yards I'd be damn damnity damn happy to even hit a human sized target.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by johnson View Post
    What's the standard target size that you can see at 100 yards for pistols? My range (Department of Conservation) doesn't allow silhouettes or anything depicting a person so it'll have to be a square or circle. Also, what is the general acceptable group size at that distance? For those shooting silhouettes, is a hit anywhere on the body (18" x ~24") considered "good"?
    I’m usually shooting a Glock and my eyes are 54 years old, so I feel like a 12-14” 10-shot group is very good at 100 yards. I’ll take smaller groups if I can get them. If I were shooting a long-barreled revolver with a good trigger, I’d expect that to be a little smaller.

    Speaking of groups, at this kind of range, I look for trends. I see flyers in nearly every string. They show what I’m doing wrong, but if I only shoot five shots and two of them are flyers, then it’s hard to see what I’m doing right, so I prefer to fire at least 10 shots, and sometimes I’ll fire 20.

    I don’t find that front sight width matters all that much. If the blade is narrower than the target, then I center the blade on the target. If the blade is wider, then I center the target on the blade. I like a 0.125” blade because that’s the narrowest I can get with a tritium lamp. That blade subtends 4” at 25 yards and 8” at 50. At 25 yards, it nestles neatly inside the bull of a B8. At 50, the B8 bull sticks up like the sun coming over the horizon. At 25 yards, it fills up the head of an IDPA target nicely, and at 100 it fills up the chest.

    What’s more important is that you use the top edge of the front sight as your elevation index, NOT the dot. The top edge is crisp and sharp in your vision and you don’t have to guess where the middle of it is. The dot in the tritium lamp subtends almost as much as the sight blade, so call it 12-16” at 100 yards. When using the dot, you have to hold about a foot over your desired POI (1/2 of the diameter of the dot plus an undetermined amount of sight blade above the dot). That means you can’t see your target at all, and that you’re basically guessing where the shot will hit. Also, if you’re shooting at a hostile person, you also can’t see what they’re doing at the moment you fire.

    As for zero distance, I once polled five SMEs and all said that they zeroed a pistol at 25 yards. Now I do that, too, with the tip of the blade splitting the group. From there, holding on the hairline of an IDPA target puts most bullets into the head or throat at 50 yards, and holding on the chin drops them into the chest at 100. Also, the sights are so close to the bore that you don't have to worry about hold-unders like you do with an AR until you get to ranges beyond 25 yards. At that distance, I have to put the dot on the chin to hit the face in low light.

    Speaking of zero, before you shoot at 100 yards, ensure that you’re dead on for windage at 25 yards, then verify it at 50. You should be OK at 100 if the wind doesn’t kick up—wind is an issue at 100 if your bullet starts out doing much less than 1,000 fps.

    Peally’s advice to cut the head off of an IDPA target is good, but the first couple of times out, you may want something wider. Four feet wide is a good place to start. If drop turns out to be more than expected or if your windage isn’t perfect, then you’ll be able to see where the bullets are hitting. I prefer large rectangular targets, with the long axis vertical. It’s surprising how much some bullets drop at 100, especially if you’re zeroed to hit under the dot at 25 yards or closer. It’s hard to find cardboard that big, so I keep a box cutter in my glove box and keep an eye peeled for furniture and mattress boxes as I drive around. If I see something that might work, I dismount, cut out the parts I can use, and toss them in the Jeep.


    Okie John
    Last edited by okie john; 12-08-2015 at 05:40 PM.

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