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Thread: Pistol Accuracy at Longer Ranges

  1. #11
    Member
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    Mo-Kan
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt View Post
    Some old time tips from Elmer Keith. Don't hold the front sight higher and cover the target. Hold the rear sight lower. He explained it better.

    Some of the old timers had gold stripes across the front sight to allow for distance.
    I will definitely do that next time. I first learned about it during an AFHF class and Todd was explaining that you don't need a perfect sight picture depending on target size/distance. We shot with the front post edge on the left and right side of the rear notch and the rear sight higher and lower in relation to the front post to show there wasn't much deviation at 7 yards.

    The stripes are a great idea. I have a FO front sight but just cover the face with red reflective tape.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nesbitt View Post
    Some old time tips from Elmer Keith. Don't hold the front sight higher and cover the target. Hold the rear sight lower. He explained it better.

    Some of the old timers had gold stripes across the front sight to allow for distance.
    That's so smart and simple I can't believe its not more common knowledge.

  3. #13
    Just 25 yards, but my end of the day offhand group at 25 yards with my CZ:

    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #14
    S.M.E., STAFF, Very Pro Dentist, Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Down the road from Quantrill's big raid.
    When I started on the job, my choices in what gun to pull if something went sideways were limited to my .357mag duty gun, my snub .38 ankle gun, and an 870 loaded with #4 buck. Having grown up reading things like Elmer Keith stories, and Mas Ayoob articles ref using duty guns at 100 yards, and having no other options, I tried to get good at longer range handgun shooting.

    My Security Six would hold a 6-8" group at 100 yards, depending on ammo, when I went single action and used roll-over prone. I've had 30-30s, AKs, and Mini 14s that didn't shoot that tight. I've pushed out to 200 with 9mms and .357s, past the 125 it gets really iffy, but inside there you can beat up a silhouette pretty good all day long.

    One of my mentors, Vince O'Neill, is well known for his long range handgun skills. He has made hits out to 600 with a model 29, and can make on demand first shot hits on steel at the 200 with his BUG, a G33

    With my Security Six I learned to use the red ramp as an elevation aid, Elmer Keith style, as was mentioned above. I learned I could use the top of the red ramp, or the bottom, instead of the top of the front slight, it gave me repeatable elevation dope for longer shots.
    Last edited by Chuck Haggard; 12-06-2015 at 10:01 PM.
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
    www.agiletactical.com

  5. #15
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Northern Rockies
    I use the dot on the glock front sights the same way. For me, with WWB ammo, holding the rear at about 2/3 down the dot, and putting the top of the front sight on the 300 yard plate was right on. One handed changed it, it didnt take quite as much front sight held above the rear. Could tell slight variations in different bullets at that range also, but that hold got it very close if not a hit.

  6. #16
    At longer distances I usually hold on the neck area of a silhouette target. Works quite well.

    After shooting for quite a while one afternoon, I tried a 50 yard group double-action with a S&W M649.
    I made a five-shot, hand-size group above the center of the target. It was better than I'd been doing at 25 yards
    single-action. Has not happened that way since.

  7. #17
    100 yards on steel (pepper popper) was our "end of the range" drill for my old team - and the low number of hits got to buy lunch. Typically, the "low man" got 10 or so hits out of 15, using 3rd Gen G19s and issued NATO ball ammunition, with Meprolight NS.

    Back this summer, I got the opportunity to wring out an "HRT" Gen4 G17 at Quantico - complete with HD sights - on 100 yard steel. Once I found a hold (that HD front sight is REALLY BIG), consistent hits just meant pressing the trigger without yanking - not hard to do on a sunny range with no return fire. My co-case-agent from a sister agency was also ringing that 100 yard steel with boring consistency.

    For me, 100 yard off hand pistol shooting is all about mental focus - assuming your fundamentals are sound to start with (if they're not, I respectfully suggest you're pissing in the wind). Which is why shots in combat at extended ranges with handguns are so impressive to me - moving targets/shooters, return fire and other "distractions" really make it hard to "keep calm and return fire."

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    For me, 100 yard off hand pistol shooting is all about mental focus - assuming your fundamentals are sound to start with (if they're not, I respectfully suggest you're pissing in the wind).
    Exactly. Shooting a pistol offhand at ranges beyond 100 yards is like putting MiracleGro on any flaws in your fundamental skills.

    On a side note, I think it's also worthwhile to incorporate some tactical thinking into training for longer shots. For me, that means working from supported positions, especially kneeling, prone, and their jackass variations. Up close, you have to get inside the other guy's OODA loop by duking it out in the Isosceles or shooting on the move. As distance increases, time may increase as well, so it seems wise to use that time to find a rest, cover, and/or concealment. You give up the element of surprise with your first shot, so taking a few seconds to do everything possible to make it count--and prepare for the possibility of return fire--might be time well spent.


    Okie John
    Last edited by okie john; 12-07-2015 at 12:40 PM.

  9. #19
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Northern Rockies
    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Exactly. Shooting a pistol offhand at ranges beyond 100 yards is like putting MiracleGro on any flaws in your fundamental skills.

    On a side note, I think it's also worthwhile to incorporate some tactical thinking into training for longer shots. For me, that means working from supported positions, especially kneeling, prone, and their jackass variations. Up close, you have to get inside the other guy's OODA loop by duking it out in the Isosceles or shooting on the move. As distance increases, time may increase as well, so it seems wise to use that time to find a rest, cover, and/or concealment. You give up the element of surprise with your first shot, so taking a few seconds to do everything possible to make it count--and prepare for the possibility of return fire--might be time well spent.


    Okie John
    In the Westgate incident, one of the civvie guys that went in mentioned in interviews that as they were working their way in towards the terrs, they were hiding behind whatever columns etc were around. He started knocking on them, the others asked what he was doing, he said "These dont sound solid, they may not stop bullets)" at which point they looked for harder cover.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    Back this summer, I got the opportunity to wring out an "HRT" Gen4 G17 at Quantico - complete with HD sights - on 100 yard steel.
    Can you share any details of how this pistol differs from a stock Gen4 G17?

    Thanks,


    Okie John

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