Pistol Accuracy at Longer Ranges

[Luke]

For me it is easier. I don't have to switch back and forth focus wise during a match.
I'd like to hear your definition of outrunning my sights, but based on what I think it means no, I don't. I look where I want to shoot, when my green fiber is where I want it I crush the trigger, the. When it comes back down and I see green fiber I crush the trigger again, then I look to the next spot, or sometimes run off lol.

[GAP]

Going from a .165 front to a .180 front should lower point of impact not raise it?

Whoops said that backwards, they shot too high. Thanks for the catch.

[Paul Sharp]

For me it is easier. I don't have to switch back and forth focus wise during a match.
I'd like to hear your definition of outrunning my sights, but based on what I think it means no, I don't. I look where I want to shoot, when my green fiber is where I want it I crush the trigger, the. When it comes back down and I see green fiber I crush the trigger again, then I look to the next spot, or sometimes run off lol.

That's really interesting to me. Admittedly it's a whole sample of 10 rounds but I fired them pretty fast given what I'm used to having to do at that range to keep all 10 rounds on a target the size of the WWB box. So without taking any more time than I would have at 10-15 yards, I was able to keep all 10 rounds in what is essentially an area the size of the -0 zone of an IDPA target, except I was at 30 yards and I wasn't keeping a hard front sight focus. I definitely think this is something to explore, and has potential to at least expand my trust in what is an acceptable sight picture and trigger speed at that distance. It will be interesting to give it a run once I've had some sleep and haven't been awake for almost 40 hours straight.

[Luke]

Keep trying it man. Never hurts to experiment (and I'm not trying to sound like I'm coaching you or trying to tell you how to shoot, I know you are a legit shooter and well versed in the world of pistolero) I worked so hard to shoot front sight focus because Gabe and his super human eyes made me jealous. After I gave up and rolled with it I'm so happy I did. Wish I would have never wasted time with front sight focus.


One thing you said that I thought about tonight was dry firing was using your rear sight as like a tube from a RDS. That's basically what I do. I'm not looking at the rear sight I'm looking through the rear sight. I never have to actively look or consciously look at the rear sight for alignment. Maybe I have some awesome peripheral vision? It's also worth noting that my super slow fire and my .50 split 25 yard groups are identical. As long as I get a good trigger press I don't need to see much to be accurate. Although I will say my accuracy isn't what most are on PF. Im probably not gonna keep them all in the black of a B8 at 25 but I can do 2 at 25 to a uspsa lower A in less than 2 seconds very repeatable. So, not sure if my technique crosses over to bullseye type shooting because I can't bullseye shoot

[Clobbersaurus]

For me it is easier. I don't have to switch back and forth focus wise during a match.
I'd like to hear your definition of outrunning my sights, but based on what I think it means no, I don't. I look where I want to shoot, when my green fiber is where I want it I crush the trigger, the. When it comes back down and I see green fiber I crush the trigger again, then I look to the next spot, or sometimes run off lol.

By outrunning your sights I mean snapping your eyes off the sights (or in your case the target that you are looking at through your sights) before you've actually broken the shot. By your description it doesn't sound like you are doing that.

I see a lot of shooters flock shooting targets, especially on close transitions and I suspect outrunning their sights is what they are doing.

It sounds like what you are doing is working, and I actually tried a bit of target focussed shooting in dry fire tonight.

I have to shoot with one eye closed because I get a lot of visual confusion with both eyes open. I find being able to switch my accommodation much easier with one eye closed. I suspect though that I use a hybrid of target focused and front sight focused shooting, for stuff longer than 10 yards I am most definitely on the front sight as hard as I can be. At 25 yards I am hyper focussed on the front sight. Closer stuff, under 10 yards or so, even though I try to focus on the front sight, I know I accept a sloppier front sight focus to see what I need to see.

At the end of the day I think what matters most is that we at least see our sights aligned on the target, weather they are in focus or not.

Love the discussion Luke, thanks for contributing to this thread.

[Paul Sharp]

Keep trying it man. Never hurts to experiment (and I'm not trying to sound like I'm coaching you or trying to tell you how to shoot, I know you are a legit shooter and well versed in the world of pistolero) I worked so hard to shoot front sight focus because Gabe and his super human eyes made me jealous. After I gave up and rolled with it I'm so happy I did. Wish I would have never wasted time with front sight focus.


One thing you said that I thought about tonight was dry firing was using your rear sight as like a tube from a RDS. That's basically what I do. I'm not looking at the rear sight I'm looking through the rear sight. I never have to actively look or consciously look at the rear sight for alignment. Maybe I have some awesome peripheral vision? It's also worth noting that my super slow fire and my .50 split 25 yard groups are identical. As long as I get a good trigger press I don't need to see much to be accurate. Although I will say my accuracy isn't what most are on PF. Im probably not gonna keep them all in the black of a B8 at 25 but I can do 2 at 25 to a uspsa lower A in less than 2 seconds very repeatable. So, not sure if my technique crosses over to bullseye type shooting because I can't bullseye shoot

Right on, I definitely appreciate the advice. I'm going to give it a dedicated effort, and hopefully it pays off. Thanks dude!

[jetfire]

For me it is easier. I don't have to switch back and forth focus wise during a match.
I'd like to hear your definition of outrunning my sights, but based on what I think it means no, I don't. I look where I want to shoot, when my green fiber is where I want it I crush the trigger, the. When it comes back down and I see green fiber I crush the trigger again, then I look to the next spot, or sometimes run off lol.

I've just started really messing around with this in practice and it feels weird but at the same time I'm getting good results with it. I was out at the range wrecking shop on a steel gong 50 yards away with both eyes open and looking through my sights at the target using this method. Right now the hardest thing I'm having to deal with is losing the front sight in recoil, since I've spent literally an entire decade training myself to track the front sight through recoil. It's weird telling my brain "naw bruh, it's okay, it'll come back to where you need it if your index is good."

[P.E. Kelley]

I shot IHMSA (International Handgun Metallic Silhouette) back when it was cool and we called that "snapping" of eye from sight to target "zooming" and was used by many of the top shooters.

With much younger eyes we would zoom back and forth from front sight to target to maintain reference between the two until the time of the break when being on the front sight was paramount.
Too often my spotter would chastise me for sloppy hits or putting one over the top because I would be zooming back to the the target at the break. (looking for the results of my skill before I had committed them!)

I am with Caleb...With good trigger control the Practical marksman can target focus a goodly ways, even beyond 50 depending on the target size. (oh and with age not watching the front sight in recoil is
easier, cause ya can't))

But for me anyway it takes refined sight alignment (with that same good trigger control) to connect with little targets...playing cards on edge, 45 cases @ 20 yards, skoal cans at 200.

Comes down to matching the technique to the desired result.

[CCT125US]

Right now the hardest thing I'm having to deal with is losing the front sight in recoil, since I've spent literally an entire decade training myself to track the front sight through recoil. It's weird telling my brain "naw bruh, it's okay, it'll come back to where you need it if your index is good."

Agree completely. I dislike having to untrain something. I just reached a point where my accuracy at distance wasn't what I needed. Post #43 in my journal I discussed going to a drive the dot sight picture, and in conversation with Luke, the red dot description is most fitting. My definition of DTD never worked for me because I was still focused on the FS and couldn't properly see the target. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....158#post488158. At the time I only worked it from 25yds and didn't do any timed closers drills. Since then I have got to run the iHack, and F.Y.L. drills. I passed the iHack twice in a row, with most strings being <2.6 while having solid hits, not edgers. The F.Y.L. where a disaster because my grip sucked and I kept shooting anyway. So far I am really liking the speed and accuracy of this.

[JHC]

Keep trying it man. Never hurts to experiment (and I'm not trying to sound like I'm coaching you or trying to tell you how to shoot, I know you are a legit shooter and well versed in the world of pistolero) I worked so hard to shoot front sight focus because Gabe and his super human eyes made me jealous. After I gave up and rolled with it I'm so happy I did. Wish I would have never wasted time with front sight focus.


One thing you said that I thought about tonight was dry firing was using your rear sight as like a tube from a RDS. That's basically what I do. I'm not looking at the rear sight I'm looking through the rear sight. I never have to actively look or consciously look at the rear sight for alignment. Maybe I have some awesome peripheral vision? It's also worth noting that my super slow fire and my .50 split 25 yard groups are identical. As long as I get a good trigger press I don't need to see much to be accurate. Although I will say my accuracy isn't what most are on PF. Im probably not gonna keep them all in the black of a B8 at 25 but I can do 2 at 25 to a uspsa lower A in less than 2 seconds very repeatable. So, not sure if my technique crosses over to bullseye type shooting because I can't bullseye shoot

I forgot about this until I was down to but 10 rounds left this morning. So I put up a B8 at 25 yards and shot a 90 with a G17. Not great but not train wreck. It was cool seeing the bull so clear. I will give this more reps.