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Thread: Meaningful Training with WML use

  1. #1
    Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Meaningful Training with WML use

    So my EDC has a TLR-1 HL and I'm trying to integrate useful training into my range sessions.

    Problem is I don't know how to get the most out of it or do it "right".

    I do a lot of dryfire draw and activation/trigger break practice with it at home - but then I go to the range and it's so bright I cannot observe the light on the target.

    Up until now I've been trying to integrate using it doing my 3 cold FASTs - I use recorded footage to confirm it's activated or observe when I "fall off" the lever and it deactivates, but that is after the fact and doesn't represent the observable data/remedial action response I would get using it in low light, so there's little learned I feel.

    The obvious solution is shoot super early/evening - which is something I've been considering more and more (the early morning session, particularly). That said I don't know how consistent I can be on squeaking in a range session before work...

    I was hoping the knowledgeable folks here at p-f had some insight in to effective & efficient ways to get the most out of training with a WML that maybe don't involve rescheduling all of my practice sessions. Or any input in general as I'm not very well versed on the subject beyond watching a few Sage Dynamics videos...
    Last edited by SsevenN; 05-01-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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  2. #2
    Site Supporter taadski's Avatar
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    So you're looking for input regarding learning to train using your WML when it's not dark? Not mocking, that's just the way it reads. My first advice would be finding a location where you can work at night or one with controlled lighting. Dry fire, as you mentioned, is a great place to start working on your manipulations, but live fire will obviously be exceedingly important.

    That said, utilizing a light effectively in conjunction with a firearm is a GIANT topic. And one that is a FAR CRY from being solved simply by sticking a WML on your pistol and going shooting a few times in the dark. If you're serious about your skill set, this is probably a juncture in your learning where spending some savings and enrolling in a training class would be a wise direction.

    Anyway, some time ago, our own TC put together a bunch of great info that wound up on the PT blog here:

    http://pistol-training.com/articles/...ght-essentials


    Re training, my info very well may be a bit dated. But two training companies of note doing a lot of low light stuff 15+ years ago were the Surefire Institute and Strategos International. There was a bunch of drama associated with the splitting of these two entities back in the day (I'll leave it at that), but I belief both are still in operation (possibly with different leadership) and might be good places to look. The latter company ran a week long instructor school called "Strategies for Low Light Engagement". A training facility I was involved with at the time hosted it and my agency sent several of us. It was truly one of the most beneficial schools of that type I've had the opportunity to take part in. Full on 'drinking from the firehose' learning for me at the time.

    There's a curtailed version of their original manual in .pdf still up on the web that might make for some useful reading. (Link below) There are some associated drills and exercises in the back that might give you some ideas or direction in the meantime.

    http://www.gandalf23.com/stuffz/Flas...ageSection.pdf

  3. #3
    Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taadski View Post
    So you're looking for input regarding learning to train using your WML when it's not dark?
    In a sense, yes. I figured I'd ask. I'm not good at seeing around corners and I spent years training in inefficient ways so before I shoot 1,000 of rounds while activating the light, day or night, I wanted a clearer picture of what works and doesn't work.

    Thanks for the links.
    "I'm checking out, somebody throw me in the trash"

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  4. #4
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
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    Find a reputable instructor and start taking low light classes. I know this is a, "Well, duh..." response, but it's dazzling (heh) how many completely reasonable assumptions fall apart in a dark shoot house.

    I've trained with Paul Howe, who does great low-light stuff in his Advanced Individual Tactics class. Mike Pannone also does a class exclusive to low-light, and I've heard that it's excellent. Other instructors will often incorporate low-light stuff into a class if the range allows (Ken Hackathorn does a pretty good survey in his class). And there's a convincing case to be made that WMLs for civilians aren't that useful (assuming you're a civilian). The Rangemaster Newsletter discussed that recently.
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  5. #5
    You may want to check the POI of any low-light handgun courses you look at; most of the ones I've taken have a heavy emphasis on handheld technique, which is of limited utility if you're trying to get WML reps in.

    You can try shooting indoors, it's usually very easy to tell if your WML is on or not at 10 yards and in, and probably further, depending on the spill of your light and lighting conditions.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter taadski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    ...most of the ones I've taken have a heavy emphasis on handheld technique...


    There's a hint in there somewhere...
    Last edited by taadski; 05-01-2017 at 05:07 PM. Reason: fixed quote

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by taadski View Post
    There's a hint in there somewhere...
    Well, to me, the hint is that there isn't too much to teach by way of WML use when it comes to mechanical shooting skills, coupled with the fact that people that carry with a WML are still a tiny minority in general. Open enrollment, weekend low-light classes are very rarely low-light tactics courses, after all, where the utility of a handheld would be much more obvious compared to a WML.

  8. #8
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taadski View Post
    There's a hint in there somewhere...
    Not exactly sure what the hint is but I keep a G17 with WML on the nightstand for home defense duty. (I have a holster made for the outfit should I desire to tote it but I think the occasions will be somewhat rare at best.)

    When I perform my LEOSA (simulated nighttime) qualifications it will be, (as in the past), with a handheld Surefire.
    Last edited by blues; 05-01-2017 at 05:06 PM.
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  9. #9
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Not exactly sure what the hint is but I keep a G17 with WML on the nightstand for home defense duty. When I perform my LEOSA (simulated nighttime) qualifications it will be, (as in the past), with a handheld Surefire.
    Ditto (except no official qualifications for me other than my own). A G17 with an APL is my in-house go-to, but as a flashoholic I have a collection of handhelds and always have one with me. My EDC pistol is a Walther PPS sans a WML but my EDC light is a modified Quark that is very capable - 780 lumens on a single IMR 14500 (AA-sized) li-ion battery;










    Google is your friend and there is a vast body of knowledge out there on using lights with weapons. IMO for civilian self defense in a public setting, a handheld offers a lot more flexibility vs. a WML. Having both (and the knowledge of how/when to deploy them) is even better.

  10. #10
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    More lights;


    A pair of 780 lumen Quarks and my SF PR1



    A Malkoff M61T MD2 on a BCM mid-length carbine



    A Malkoff Hound Dog 18650 on the carbine





    I use hand held lights as WMLs on long guns so I can still use them as hand helds too!

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