Carbine vs handgun

[BehindBlueI's]

Someone who keeps a cool head, and can shoot, can certainly surprise the shit out of someone who isn't expecting trouble.

This guy was the reason I started working in 75y+ distances into my training routinely:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/06...crazed-gunman/

312' with a handgun, one handed, while holding horse reins with the other hand? Come the eff on, man, you're making the rest of us look like slugs!

[JSGlock34]

Also, are there things you could do to improve your odds with a pistol against a rifle, an example being to close with the shooter to take away some of the distance advantage of the long gun.

Tactics are so situational, so it is hard to talk in absolutes...but I keep thinking 'proximity negates skill' when I read this.

[Malamute]

Can you point me to a source for that info? I would appreciate it.

I'll echo those who agree that a carbine would be more effective, but that since you aren't likely to have it on you it is going to be a pistol problem.

This is one place I saw it. Theres a number of references in a google search, some being in spanish.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....ckers-in-Paris

In looking more, it may be incorrect info, but was making the rounds online for a while. Apologies for spreading the incorrect story. It seems to have started with Russian media somehow.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I should have said this in my initial post -- this wasn't so much which you would pick, since that is obviously a long gun to me, but rather how would a trained good guy do with a pistol against the bad guy with long gun. Also, are there things you could do to improve your odds with a pistol against a rifle, an example being to close with the shooter to take away some of the distance advantage of the long gun.

I think about this a lot, and I'll briefly explain why: being a big guy with a major in keeping my eyes open to avoid trouble and a minor in bar brawls, my part of Canada is basically non-threatening to me unless I specifically choose to make it otherwise. I could easily go my whole adult life here and never feel at risk of violent crime (young men don't count, they're as punchy as boxers, or even NHL 4th line defencemen).

Anyway the point is, I basically never have to worry about a mugging or robbery. That's not HuffPo propaganda, that's a realistic assessment by a guy who's intentionally exposed himself to a bunch of pretty harsh sketchiness and trained a lot to cope with situations that do crop up elsewhere. If you want to avoid plain-jane criminal violence here, that's really easy, 99.99% of the time. Conceivably you could be mistaken for someone running a grow op, or if you looked right, for a rival gangster. But that's about it for random violent crime.


The one thing that could happen is a terrorist attack, because that could happen wherever. Tyrifjorden. Paris. San Bernadino. It's unlikely but possible. And in that case, at best, it would occur somewhere that I could immediately leave. At worst, somewhere I couldn't leave.

In between is the unlikely possibility that I'm on my way to a gunsmith or range, and so I have a gun in a case in a bag. According to Canadian law, that'd be legal assuming I was taking a reasonably direct route to the gunsmith etc.

There's no circumstance in which I'd be hauling a long gun in anything other than a car, at least not that I can think of.

But potentially I'd be heading to an in-town range or gun shop with a handgun cased up in a messenger bag, say. That would be legal. We're pretty far out on the obscurity scale here, but it's possible.

Given those circumstances: place I can't leave, terrorists with long guns, me with a handgun cased up in a bag that I can access on account of cover or concealment or whatever, what's my take?


I'd hope the gun had a red dot, because I'd want to engage at distance if at all. Yes, long guns are more effective at distance. Untrained shooters are not, though.

I'd hope that I'd been practising at distance with that gun

I'd hope that a way out turned up before the shooting started

I'd hope that I could plan the first shot carefully, because man, after that instant, I bet things would go pretty sideways


Given some of the above, I figure I could do as well as you'd expect, worse than you'd hope, and better than you'd fear.

[LSP552]

Tactics are so situational, so it is hard to talk in absolutes...but I keep thinking 'proximity negates skill' when I read this.

With pistols again rifles, proximity reduces advantage. "Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik. The odds will be even."
- Captain Spock

[GJM]

Hopefully Gabe will share his "data" from the other night.

I will post more on our two experiments tomorrow, but in one that involved targets at 10, 12 and 14 yards, it was pretty close between carbine and pistol. On three eight inch steel targets at 30-35 yards, the carbine trounced the pistol.

[Malamute]

I wonder what 40 yards, mostly untrained carbine operator against decent pistol shot would turn up?

[okie john]

Can you point me to a source for that info? I would appreciate it.

Same here.


Okie John

[JHC]

Hopefully Gabe will share his "data" from the other night.

I will post more on our two experiments tomorrow, but in one that involved targets at 10, 12 and 14 yards, it was pretty close between carbine and pistol. On three eight inch steel targets at 30-35 yards, the carbine trounced the pistol.

With no SBR or AR pistl, a few months ago I set up my G31 w/ 22 round mag in a handy bag that is wicked accurate in the 25-50 yd zone.

[scw2]

I think John Murphy has a course called pistol vs rifle. Does anyone know of someone that's taken that course?