Week 140: On Target, Off Target (Ready Position Evaluation)

[BN]

Shot this again today with my CZ P-01.
IDPA targets with 3x5 card.


CZ P-01 times Glock 17 times from before
String 1: 8.58 3 misses 5.96 3 misses
String 2: 7.69 1 miss 8.03 0 miss
String 3: 4.11 2 misses 2.69 1 miss
String 4: 10.46 4 misses 10.01 1 miss
String 5: 12.06 2 misses 11.62 3 misses
String 6: 7.81 4 misses 8.08 1 miss

16 misses total. But they didn't miss by far.

I was surprised that my extended ready and compressed ready times were so close. Part of it is that the Meprolite sights on this pistol suck. I had more time to acquire them on the press out. I fired every shot DA, de-cocking after each shot.

edit to add: I added my Glock 17 times from the other day. They are a little hard to read and separate.

[eyemahm]

USP Expert LEM 9mm, stock adjustable rear, Dawson .125 tritium front
8" circle for big target, 3x5" for small target
7 yards

extended ready = low ready, pointed at "feet"
compressed ready = compressed to chest, muzzle pointed high

1) 8.53, 2 misses
2) 9.46, 2 misses
3) 3.56, 1 miss
4) 12.16, 2 misses
5) 15.64, 3 misses
6) 7.27, 4 misses

This was very tiring in terms of maintaining grip over a long period and dealing with a sweaty frame/grip. I took some small breaks to make sure I was able to shoot the strings with relatively consistent effort. Still, I think performance was slightly degraded towards the end.

The trick to the low ready strings is to keep your eyes on target and bring your sights up to your eye level. This resulted in consistent hits and was noticeably (and measurably) faster than raising both eyes and sights from the feet or "searching for your sights" before they came to eye level. Compared to the compressed ready, this was a much faster technique to acquire sights and get solid hits on target. Even with a level (instead of muzzle elevated) compressed ready and pressout, the low ready was much faster and easier.

In string 3, I was able to do move my finger from the register and trigger mash at what was basically my reaction speed. On the smaller target, however, I had to shoot at about half the speed to keep my trigger press at a speed that it was accurate. Try as I might, I wasn't getting consistent hits at below .70 seconds, compared to .3-.4 seconds on the 8" circle. This was also a good lesson that my grip/trigger control isn't where it needs to be.

With regard to finding a ready position for dealing with real shit, if I had consistently shot from the low ready with eyes on target, instead of messing around with different techniques, I think my times would have been about 7.5 seconds overall, compared to 3.6 for on target. This is a significant difference and basically says it takes twice the time (.4 sec) to get on target.

I think we were supposed to find the difference in speed between strings 1 and 3, and 4 and 6 to be marginal, but there was almost 100% difference for me.

[Mr_White]

The trick to the low ready strings is to keep your eyes on target and bring your sights up to your eye level. This resulted in consistent hits and was noticeably (and measurably) faster than raising both eyes and sights from the feet or "searching for your sights" before they came to eye level.

That's how you're supposed to do it. Bringing the gun to where you are already looking is way better, technically speaking, than trying to find a spot with your eyes and gun simultaneously. It's also the only tactically logical thing to do - how would we make a decision to engage in the first place if our eyes are aligned with the sights and the ground or his feet?

I think we were supposed to find the difference in speed between strings 1 and 3, and 4 and 6 to be marginal, but there was almost 100% difference for me.

There was no 'supposed to find' about it. I definitely did have an opinion about what people would experience. It's been interesting to see more time difference in favor of starting on target than I thought. However it doesn't even come close to changing what I believe is a clear need for ready positions with unobstructed vision. Because decisionmaking. Starting aligned with the target spot before a decision to fire has been made is a non-starter with me for that reason alone, even if there is a time cost. With a little practice, the time it takes to engage from a ready position can be very similar to starting on target. It doesn't have to cost much time at all. And may even counterintuitively gain time.

[BehindBlueI's]

When I started there was light cloud cover and a tiny flurry of snow. Then the sun came out and the wind was blowing the baffles around enough I had moving shadows on my target. That made it fun for the head shot box, but I got through it.

After 1st string:



End result:



String #1:
Fastest: 0.60
Slowest: 0.83
Hits: 8/10
Total time: 7.14

String #2:
Fastest: 0.72
Slowest: 0.98
Hits: 9/10
Total time: 8.36

String #3:
Fastest: 0.31
Slowest: 0.77
Hits: 10/10
Total time: 4.63

String #4:
Fastest: 0.89
Slowest: 1.07
Hits: 8/10
Total time: 9.70

String #5:
Fastest: 1.02
Slowest: 1.64
Hits: 7/10
Total time: 12.3

String #6:
Fastest: 0.65
Slowest: 1.46
Hits: 6/10
Total time: 8.73

Shot with my .40 P226 and American Eagle 180gr factory ammo. Everything shot DA.

Things I noted:

I'm significantly faster when starting on target, which was not surprising in the least to me. My slow times were due to slow reaction to the beep, and 6/10 were under .40 seconds. String #6 was tough because I was starting to lose mental focus and wanted to jab at the trigger and I also had a moving shadow playing up and down on the bottom half of the box. Most of my misses were just low and were in the shadow, a combination of visual confusion and stabbing at the trigger and shoving slightly. To be really fair to this test, I should probably shoot it in the opposite order at some point, from 6-1, as well. I'd also probably shoot the "compressed ready" strings from a low ready to compare to high ready as well.

[Mr_White]

It's only going to be a rough evaluation without throwing a mountain of ammo at it, but I'm happy some people tried it. Thanks for shooting it and posting your results BBI, I was really interested in how it was going to go for you.

[Mickey]

Beretta 92A1
Pistol training target

String 1: 10.82 2 misses
String 2: 11.67 2 misses
String 3: 9.14. Clean
String 4: 13.49 6 misses!!!
String 5: 15.12. 3 misses
String 6: 12.08 2 misses

All shots taken in DA.
I shot way too fast at the beginning of the small target I began to doubt that the Wilson rear sight I installed last week was properly zeroed. As it turns out they were I just wasn't being smooth on the trigger.