Weak hand shooting (not WHO)

[seabiscuit]

ToddG's post on p-t.com got me thinking. As part of the PPC (Practical Pistol Course) at the range back home, there's a left-side barricade string, shot weak hand, but with the strong hand on the pistol too.

I can't recall any drills mentioned here or at p-t.com that suggest shooting weak hand, and not weak hand only.

Why not? Does it just not offer any advantage over strong hand, both hands, even when shooting around a left-side barricade?

[ToddG]

There are two schools of thought. Some folks are big in favor of "bilateral" pistol shooting, meaning the ability to switch from right-as-strong two-handed to left-as-strong two-handed.

I'm not among that camp for the following reasons:

1. I don't find it actually allows me to use cover any better. I've demonstrated this at a number of classes.
2. I don't want to be swapping hands in the middle of a stressful event, like clearing a structure.
3. The amount of time and energy it's going to take to reach reasonably equal competence with "reverse grip" isn't worth it. Remember, it's not just about making hits or even hits at speed. You need to have your reload and malfunction clearance skills polished with the reverse grip, etc.
4. "2" and "3" add up to a violation of Hackathorn's Law... if I'm not confident I can do it, I'm not going to do it under stress. If I'm not going to do it under stress, why practice it?

(btw, since Ken's named was mentioned, it's worth noting that he is a very serious advocate of bilateral pistol shooting... as such, I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that I'm suggesting he endorses my viewpoint on the subject)

[VolGrad]

Here's a right handed shooter taking aim from behind a barricade (on his strong side) with the pistol in his strong hand. Note how little is exposed.


Here's the same shooter taking aim from the weak side of the barricade while still holding the pistol primarily with his strong hand. Note the difference.


Quiz ... Can anyone name that shooter?

EDIT: This pic demo doesn't address WHO vs week hand + strong hand as support. It does demo what Todd hit on though.

[ToddG]

There are better ways to use cover when approaching a strong side corner than that, though. It's like saying "let me prove Weaver is better" by shooting a sub-10 El Prez from Weaver and then shooting a 20-plus El Prez while holding the gun upside down in one hand.

As I said, as both a teacher and student (not to mention in FOF) I've demonstrated plenty of times that I can effectively fire from a position of much better concealment than shown in that photo above. TCinVA and Tom Jones were with me when we spent quite a bit of time playing around with it in Ohio.

[Al T.]

VolGrad, the "Cirillo Cant" takes care of that issue fairly well.

[Dagga Boy]

There are two schools of thought. Some folks are big in favor of "bilateral" pistol shooting, meaning the ability to switch from right-as-strong two-handed to left-as-strong two-handed.

I'm not among that camp for the following reasons:

1. I don't find it actually allows me to use cover any better. I've demonstrated this at a number of classes.
2. I don't want to be swapping hands in the middle of a stressful event, like clearing a structure.
3. The amount of time and energy it's going to take to reach reasonably equal competence with "reverse grip" isn't worth it. Remember, it's not just about making hits or even hits at speed. You need to have your reload and malfunction clearance skills polished with the reverse grip, etc.
4. "2" and "3" add up to a violation of Hackathorn's Law... if I'm not confident I can do it, I'm not going to do it under stress. If I'm not going to do it under stress, why practice it?

(btw, since Ken's named was mentioned, it's worth noting that he is a very serious advocate of bilateral pistol shooting... as such, I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that I'm suggesting he endorses my viewpoint on the subject)

I'll mark this day on my calendar...........Todd and I are in 100% full agreement.

For what its worth, after spending time training with Ken Good I tried doing the whole bilateral thing in the field under real stress in unpredictable situations. I dumped it after numerous failures, and getting killed trying to get to Jedi level 12 wasn't worth it. Some people are very ambidextrous and can pull this off without much of an issue. Most people do not fit in this category. I now only train one hand only with my support hand because the reality is that the only time I am ever going to use my support hand is if my primary is not functioning or unable to hold and fire my firearm.

[LittleLebowski]

Vickers is some sort of weird mutant when it comes to this method..... Best weak hand shooter I've ever seen.

[Dropkick]

Trackback to a thread I started about Weak Hand Shooting:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...-Hand-Shooting

I've also heard weak hand shooting (not WHO) called "Mirror-Image" because your grip is reversed like in a mirror.

I'm not saying it's a good or bad technique, just that I'm aware that it exists.

[seabiscuit]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll spend my ammo and dry-fire time on WHO, I think.

What's the Cirillo Cant?

[Simon]

I shot PPC with a revolver for years, found that trying to shoot weak side barricade with the weak hand pulling the trigger and using the none dominant eye doesn't work very well. For the game, putting the back of the strong hand against the weak side of the barricade, using the dominant eye works muck better. You can use your strong thumb on the barricade if you want. With the ammo used in PPC , the recoil won't be a problem.

In a gun fight, these barricade positions, for all practical purposes, are worthless. If your are behind a building , ricochets stay to close to a hard surface. If you are behind any type of fence other than stone you have no protection.

PPC was developed in the 1950s by the FBI for training and was never really anything other than a marksmanship game. If you try to get into any of those positions in the open during a gun fight you are going to get your a$$ shot.