POA/POI, Small Targets and where does your pistol hit?

[BN]

Recently we have been shooting at small targets at various distances. The 1" squares as well as the 3x5 cards.

I discovered that I had to cover the 1" squares with my front sight in order to not hit below the target. Also the walk back shots on the 3x5 cards made me wonder exactly where my pistol hit.

I described my tests with my pistols in my journal. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....in-Chair/page9

I discovered that the new sights on a couple of my pistols were "drive the dot".

Where do your pistols hit? Do you change your hold for different distances?

I discovered that all of my pistols hit behind the front sight at very close distances because of offset.

How does anybody hit anything on a walk back drill?

[GJM]

If I had my druthers, all my pistols would be fitted with rugged, adjustable rear sights. I have had two CZ Shadows fitted with adjustable rear sights by Matt Mink. Makes zeroing with my preferred, tip of the front sight hold, a snap. For fixed sights, I like that Trijicon offers different height front sights for the Glock and CZ to get desired POA/POI.

[RJ]

Bill, I'd let you know, if I could hit the dang 1" square.

Seriously, though, I'm interested in the answers, so I posted so it is in my participated feed.

For what it's worth, I'm told my HK VP9 has a 'cover hold' (Is that the same as drive the dot?), so generally, I try and put the front sight over the top of the target middle. I find that as a noob, that seems easier to me than bisecting the top of the sight blade, which I used for my M&P.

[GJM]

Bill, I'd let you know, if I could hit the dang 1" square.

Seriously, though, I'm interested in the answers, so I posted so it is in my participated feed.

For what it's worth, I'm told my HK VP9 has a 'cover hold' (Is that the same as drive the dot?), so generally, I try and put the front sight over the top of the target middle. I find that as a noob, that seems easier to me than bisecting the top of the sight blade, which I used for my M&P.

Rich, how do you hit a target that you can't see, like a one inch square, when it is obscured by your front sight?

[taadski]

My goal is to have my pistols shooting top of the front sight at 25 yards. Sig stock sights (8/8 combos in 9mm) print behind the dot at distance for me, so I change them out. If Dawson didn't have such a wide assortment of front sight heights available (in your choice of tritium, black or fiber optic), I'd be tempted to try and suss out an adjustable rear solution like George mentioned. But they do. So I don't.

Fwiw, shooting the 1" squares up close, I still have to "cover the target" a bit like you mentioned b/c of the offset.


t

[scw2]

Funny this turned into a post because of the question I posed to you a week or so back about the sweet 16 drill....

Basically doing the "Find your level" DOTW I'm driving the dot and putting it right in the square to hit it at 5 yd.

When I'm doing the walk backs, I've been trying to drive the dot. The furthest I've gotten is about 18 yards, but all my shots have tended to stay at or above the halfway point. I think as I move out, the answer is I need to to start shifting towards a 'pumpkin on post' POI, due to the natural parabolic trajectory of the bullet. I haven't reached 25 yards yet, so maybe past that distance I'd start to drive the dot again.

[RJ]

Rich, how do you hit a target that you can't see, like a one inch square, when it is obscured by your front sight?

Not very well.

But seriously, I can see the outline of the square, I just can't hold it steady enough during the press to hit it.

My 'Finding Your Level' drill from this weekend, 6/10, 5 yards. I did peg the 3" square, though.

[JTPHD]

As taadski mentioned, the Dawson "perfect impact" policy is hard to beat. Although, adjustable rears are nice if you like to test new bullet weights/loads
https://dawsonprecision.com/product_...g?t=1440019909

[JohnO]

Attachment 4441

Image #2 hold yielded these results at 25 yards.

[Lomshek]

If I had my druthers, all my pistols would be fitted with rugged, adjustable rear sights.

Funny you mention that as I'm looking to get adjustables for my M&P FS after Apex gets a barrel in it. I like the idea of being able to tune POA/POI to exactly what I want instead of having to settle and being able to readjust later if I change ammo.

Do you (or anyone) have suggestions for a rugged adjustable sight brand? I'm leaning toward Novak rears with yellow tritium vials over Dawson's for the better protection but don't know anyone with Novaks to really lay hands on one. Either way I'm going to use a hi-viz front sight like the HD's or something from Ameriglo.