Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: AAR: Ken Hackathorn Advanced Pistol, 7-8 November 2015, Waxahachie, Texas

  1. #1
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    AAR: Ken Hackathorn Advanced Pistol, 7-8 November 2015, Waxahachie, Texas

    BLUF

    A fantastic class on pragmatic combat shooting. Highly recommended for anyone that carries a pistol for self-defense.

    The School

    Extreme Tactics and Training Solutions hosted the class. They’re located in Waxahachie, Texas and (traffic permitting) can be reached from most parts of the D/FW area in about an hour and a half. The facility is out in the country a ways, but is not what I would call “the middle of nowhere.”

    I can’t really comment on the facility, because I only saw a small portion of it. Their office is a trailer with real plumbing, and they have a stable and a hangar at the entrance as well. There is an asphalt road that seems to run through the complex, so you can just pull your car up to the applicable range and not have to unload everything, which is really convenient.

    It seemed like every other bay had permanent cover attached, but there were only tables, and no places to sit. I can definitely see larger classes crowding for shade in the summer, so I would definitely bring your own chair, and if possible, your own shade as well. The nearest real eatery is about a fifteen minute drive away, so I would recommend bringing a meal.

    The Instructor

    Everyone on the forum knows about Ken, but I’ll put this here for the sake of completeness. His profile on Alias Training says this:

    “Ken Hackathorn has served as a US Army Special Forces Small Arms Instructor, Gunsite Instructor, and NRA Police Firearms Instructor. He is currently an FBI Certified Firearms Instructor, Certified Deputy Sheriff with Washington County SO, Ohio, and a SRT member and Special Response Team trainer. Ken has trained US Military Special Operations forces, Marine FAST and SOTG units and is a contract small arms trainer to FBI SWAT and HRT.

    Ken has provided training to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and been active in small arms training for the past 25 years. He has written firearms related material for Guns & Ammo, Combat Handguns, Soldier Of Fortune, and currently American Handgunner and contributed to at least six other gun/shooting journals. Ken was also a founding member of IPSC and IDPA.”
    What’s cool about Ken is that he’s an old school guy that’s not stuck in the old school. He’s been doing this stuff for as long as “this stuff” has been a thing you can do, and he’s continued to evolve during that time. If there was something he taught previously he’s since reneged on, he discusses it freely, and doesn’t get bent out of shape about the fact it was “stupid shit”, as he’s wont to say. Ken’s approach to most techniques is that everything has its place.

    The guy’s an encyclopedia of small arms. He knows everyone, has trained people all over the world, and is familiar with the industry inside and out. If you’re curious about how or why some aspect of tactics or shooting evolved to the way it is today, Ken is the guy to ask.

    He’s very relaxed, and approachable. I never once heard a student ask a question that Ken didn’t take time to answer thoroughly, even if it was about random firearms esoterica. He demoed all of his drills, and wasn’t concerned about making mistakes in front of people, which definitely helped the overall mood of the class.

    I would also like to give a shout out to Sarah Bledsoe at Alias Training. I registered late for the class, then had trouble getting my payment squared away (both of which were buffoonery on my part). Sarah was very patient and helpful throughout the process, and I want to make sure she gets credit for the good work.

    Class Makeup

    I believe there were seventeen students in the class, and, so far as I’m aware, everyone in the class was a civilian. We did have some retired veterans, but most of us were your average Joe looking to improve our pistol skills. The class seemed to be divided evenly between Glocks, M&Ps, and 1911s (“The world’s finest close quarter combat weapon, and king of the feedway stoppage”). One brave soul was running a revolver, and Ken made sure to cover relevant revolver techniques when applicable.

    Most everyone was using irons, but we did have a few red dots in the crowd as well. Only a handful of people had WMLs, and I may have been the only person with a laser.

    The Nature of an “Advanced Class”

    [This isn’t directly related to a class, but a subject that’s often debated, and I wanted to address it explicitly.]

    It’s worth taking a moment to discuss what constitutes “advanced”. This is kind of a sticking point for Ken, and what he teaches in the course. This class is setup to give the student an introduction into how to win real-world confrontations. This is not a class in how to work your way up the ranks of USPSA. At one point, Ken said, “You don’t have to be a great shot to win a gunfight. But it helps to be good.”

    Given that a lot of people that comes through Ken’s class are type-A over-achievers, students are often struck by how quote/unquote “loose” pass fail requirements for Ken’s drills are. It’s as if a drill that isn’t pushing the limits of human capability doesn’t qualify as a “good drill.”

    Anytime I see this debate pop up, I refer to comments Paul Howe made in response to an “Internet expert” reviewing his active shooter response DVD. The reviewer said of Howe, “His firing demonstrations are so slow and deliberate that they look like recreational plinking.” Paul responded to this in a newsletter: “…’It looks like his moving around and plinking’. Yes, it does. I have plinked people to death in the real world. I have plinked them in the front, back, side, daytime and nighttime. I have done it under NVGs with a laser. Speed is relative to the shot required and the tactical situation.”

    So, are these type-A overachievers going to be satiated by Ken’s drills? Probably not. Can these drills reorient a type-A overachiever to what’s required to win gunfights in the real world? Absolutely. What makes Ken’s class truly advanced is that it’s completely focused on the real world.

    And when it comes to the “real world”, nothing proves Ken’s point better than his gun handling policy. Ken’s gun handling policy could probably be summarized as, “There’s no firing line in the real world.” He’s never going to dictate when you can screw with your pistol, and when you can’t. Need to finick with your pistol when the line is ready to move forward and tape up targets? Continue to finick with your pistol and walk with the rest of the line. Point it up in a safe direction, or point it down in a safe direction, re-holster it if you need to, or walk over to the berm and finish your manipulations. Busy stuffing mags and need to reload while working out of the trunk of your car? Do it. That’s how things work in the real world.

    Ken summarized this by saying, “Show me a police building without bullet holes in it, and I’ll show you a building that hasn’t been dedicated yet.” In the midst of an actual self-defense situation, no one is ever going to ask you to face in a certain direction, present your firearm, eject the magazine, eject the chambered cartridge, and present an empty chamber. According to Ken, the entire concept of a “cold range” encourages people to do “stupid shit” because they “know” their gun isn’t loaded if they’re not on the line.

    So far as I’m concerned, this safety policy is utterly brilliant. It is the quintessential synopsis of Ken’s class: this is the real world. You’re going to have real world safety, and real world accuracy standards. Train students to function under artificial constriction, where their handling and their attitude is dictated by range policy, and you’re training a student to fail in environments where that range policy no longer applies.

    If there was one thing you’d ask me to recall about my class with Ken, I would bring up his safety policy. It’s such a seemingly simple thing, and yet Ken turned it into a paradigm shifting experience. That’s probably how I can summarize everything Ken does: “It may not seem like much, but it changes your attitude.”

    Day 1

    The class started with a lecture. Ken covered the fundamentals of what most civilian/LEO gunfights looked like, and how he had tailored the class to fit those guidelines. One of the key points of his presentation was that it was very common for people involved in shootouts to be moving around. This is why much of the second day was dedicated to shooting on the move. He also mentioned that when most people are surprised, they shoot with one hand, and he had thusly integrated a number of close range SHO shooting drills into his curriculum.

    Ken played an instrumental role in the formulation of several shooting organizations. His position on this was, “As soon as people get hooked on competition, they start doing stupid shit.” To be clear, Ken likes shooting competitions, but “Don’t spend time doing stupid shit that’s contrary to what you need to be doing.”

    When it comes to the distance of shots, Ken reverts to legal realities. The standard all civilians involved in lethal force confrontations are measured by is: “Would a prudent person do that?” Emphasis on “prudent”. Could you shoot someone 50 yards away with a handgun? Of course. But when you’re presenting this to a grand jury, how are you going to establish that a “prudent” person would have done the same thing? Your average juror isn’t going to understand the minutia of handgun utilization. So as much as reality might suck, you have to think of the pragmatic repercussions.

    He also spent time addressing a number of other legal realities. “If you want an attorney, get their home, and cell phone, number. You’re not going to be calling during business hours.” If you’re in a shooting, always make sure to point out the bad guy’s weapon: friends, family members, and other sympathizers will routinely pick up weapons to protect their homie. Tell the cops, “I was in fear for my life”, then ask for an attorney. Don’t answer a question on an interview without looking at your attorney first. And, most of all, don’t lie to your hired goon lawyer. Even if you were in the midst of something distasteful (“Out looking for a date, and you’re married”), your goon attorney specializes in getting people off the hook for truly abhorrent things, and the context of your self-defense shooting is going to be pretty tame compared to what they normally see.

    Ken doesn’t get bent out of shape about stance. His position is that you’re almost certainly going to be moving, so who cares if your feet were in the exact correct position to begin with? For any pistol that requires the disabling of a manual safety, the safety goes off when the hands come together on your presentation. Safety goes back on before the pistol goes into the holster. And if you’re left incorrectly handed, don’t index your finger on the slide release.

    When it comes to ready positions, Ken is ambivalent. He is not married to any one technique, and shares the benefits and drawbacks of all of them. He discussed low ready, high ready, sul, and temple index, and demonstrated response times with all of them. As with most things, Ken is flexible: every ready position has its place. So far as the draw is concerned, Ken doesn’t really care, provided you’re not fishing or bowling.

    For reloads, Ken wants the pistol in your “work space”. For Ken, this means pinning your elbow to your body, and being able to see the bad guy through your trigger guard (pinning your elbow is important when using a flashlight). With regard to tac reloads, Ken points out that you’re not going to be able to pick up dropped magazines because you’re moving, and it’s most likely going to be dark.

    One important consideration of ready positions is the common argument that, “Once I’ve come out of the holster, I’ve decided to shoot the target.” The truth is: you’re probably not going to have made that decision. Don’t train to pull the trigger as soon as you come up on target.

    With regards to AIWB: Ken says it has a lot of benefits. However, because you’re going to be reholstering so often in a class, Ken doesn’t allow people to carry a striker-fired handgun this way. If your handgun has a manual safety, or a decock option, you can use AIWB if you want.

    Pretty much all shooting from the first section was between seven and ten yards. We did eventually work back to 25 yards for a few drills, but again, most gunfights happen between ten yards and in, so that’s mostly what we focused on.

    The first shooting drill was a simple index, shot, and follow through. Ken pointed out that a lot of people abandon their follow through before their brass hits the ground (I was dubious, and then Ken demonstrated how long it actually takes brass to hit the ground). After that, we did a dry-fire drill, where we had a partner place either empty brass, or a coin on our front sight, and the shooter had to pull the trigger without making the coin fall off.

    Shooting for the morning of the first afternoon was an orientation, and a simple check to make sure we didn’t have any “that guys” (we didn’t; everyone in the class seemed to shoot pretty well). After lunch, we covered the drills.

    Ken tweaks standard drills a bit, just to keep people on their toes. For instance, he wants between six and eight rounds loaded in the gun when shooting an el presidente. It was interesting to see how a number of students had to stop themselves from dropping mags with rounds still in them. A great example of a training scar.

    We wrapped up the afternoon, and had 90 minutes for dinner to let things get sufficiently dark. Most students headed toward the Sonic, which is one of the closer eateries. When we headed back to the range, we started the low light portion of the class.

    Ken is often asked, “What’s the best sights?” The sights you can see. RMRs are the way of the future, but with regards to their employment on pistols, they’re not quite there yet. With regard to the lumen war, Ken quoted Dave Harrington: “Dude, I don’t want to give the motherfucker a suntan, I just want to see who he is.”

    While discussing illumination techniques, Ken touched on how debates about techniques can be infinitely regressive. “But if you use this technique, you can’t see your sights”, or “If you’re using this technique, it’s too easy to get the light misaligned from the pistol”, or “If you’re relying on a weapon mounted light, you could muzzle people”, or so forth and so on, ad nauseum.

    Ken’s response to this was simple, but for some reason, it struck me deeply, and I’ll never forget it: “Life’s not fucking. Fair.” And just like that, the endless debate was settled. In the real world, how many times are we faced with choices that are somewhere between abysmal and horrible? Ken’s stance on topics like this is probably why he doesn’t have much of a presence on the Internet.

    This is only the second time I’ve shot low light, so I’m not really in a position to give a thoughtful critique. There were at least two other members of the forum who attended the class as well who are much more familiar. Hopefully they can chime in to share their opinions.

    Day 2

    Day 2 began with shooting on the move. Ken said many people’s default startle response is to run, which is a bad idea for a number of reasons. People have an innate “prey response”, and any time someone turns tail and run, our natural instinct is to chase them. This works both ways: you don’t want to trigger that innate response in an attacker, and you don’t want to succumb to that innate response and chase an attacker that’s fleeing (at least if you’re a civilian).

    Unless you’re LEO or Mil, you’re probably not going to be moving toward your target and firing, but this is a never say never thing. You could potentially find yourself in a situation where the most accessible cover is in front of you, and you need to shoot your way to it.

    Ken is big on positioning shooters in an unorthodox manner. On both the Flex drill, and the Snake drill, students will be in front of the shooter. Ken has caught flak for this in the past, but it’s another instance of teaching people how to behave in the real world.

    For the most part, we spent day two shooting drills. This allowed Ken the opportunity to critique us, as well as an orientation into what Ken considers important to when gunfights. Some (but not all) of Ken’s drills were as follows: Bill drill, moving one to five, lateral el president, the test, the half-test, the wizard, 6-6-6, heads 1-2-3, the long Bill, and others.

    My favorite was the BFM drill, which wasn’t Ken’s idea, but he still likes. Three targets, begin with eight rounds in the gun. Center target gets a Bill drill, left target gets a FAST, right target gets a Mozambique. IDPA scoring applies, but miss a headshot, and fail. The standard is under 20 seconds, pass/fail. I finished in 16.63, dropping one point, but that was after getting my mag utterly tangled in my cover garment, so I was actually happy with that result.

    The last portion of the class was the snake drill. We wrapped things up around 6:00pm with a quick synopsis, shook hands, and parted ways.

    The Bad

    My only major complaint about the class was the absence of an emergency medical brief. If we had been right outside of town, it wouldn’t have been a big deal. But there was a moment during the evening of day one, when the range staff had left, and the class was on our own on an unfamiliar facility, in an unfamiliar town, in the country, in the dark, that I thought, “I really hope nobody fucks up.”

    I do think the class could have been a bit smaller, but with the travel costs Ken has to eat, I can hardly blame him. At any rate, Ken kept everything running smoothly, so this is a minor quibble. The addition of an AI wouldn’t hurt, but again, coordinating that sort of thing on the road is a pain, so not that big of an issue.

    The Good

    All in all, I think this was a great class. The drills were down to earth, no rounds were wasted just making noise, and the students walked away with a firm understanding of what they’re practicing and why.

    Maybe the best thing I picked up from Ken was his approach to technique. He’s not married to a single technique on virtually anything: everything has its place, and as long as you’re competent in performing your chosen technique, your opinion is completely valid. This is something I’m going to keep in mind during the next Internet debate.

    Ken’s just a cool guy. He’s charismatic, extraordinarily knowledgeable, and a great communicator. I wish I would have trained with him years ago.

    Summary

    I think the only bad thing I can say about Ken is that he’s getting ready to retire. He said he’s teaching four classes domestically next year, one of which is already filled. Anyone that consider themselves a true student of shooting needs to train with Ken while they still can.

    _____________________

    This review is disjointed in places, and I've left out a lot of information. I'm happy to answer questions as best I can.
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  2. #2
    Thanks for the thorough review! With regards to Ken's point about follow through, was his point that people aren't really following through but think they are? Perhaps it's better to do so for 1-2 sec after you're done shooting?

  3. #3
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
    Thanks for the thorough review! With regards to Ken's point about follow through, was his point that people aren't really following through but think they are? Perhaps it's better to do so for 1-2 sec after you're done shooting?
    I think that was his essential premise. I don't think it was as long as two seconds, but it was longer than I expected at any rate.
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  4. #4
    Member Mike Pipes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    BOSSIER CITY,LA
    Well written and thought out.....my favorite ken hackathorn quote ' don't do that stupid shit'..................cya retro
    The Thin Blue Line is TOO Thin........Thug Life Must End

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Waaaay out west.
    Good review, thanks for posting.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •