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Thread: The truth about pocket folders as defensive tools?

  1. #31
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    Jody, do you carry on the same side, or opposite side of your handgun? I've been thinking it makes sense to keep a blade on the support side as a form of weapon retention and/or alternate option if weapon side is entangled, as you mentioned.

    How is everyone else carrying their folder?
    Strong side front pocket.
    The P'kal is "waved" and the Delica is just a "Spydy hole".
    If I'm carrying weak side it'll be a fixed blade (centerline clinch pick), I don't trust my left hand dexterity enough to reliably deploy a folder.
    One thing you learn in ECQC and IAJJ is that a botched tool deployment is worse than no tool deployment.
    Last edited by JodyH; 11-11-2015 at 06:10 PM.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  2. #32
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    How is everyone else carrying their folder?
    When I carried purely folders (no fixed blade), it was one one each side and I practiced extensively my weak hand deployment so that I could do it without thought. When John Holshen had me on my back and punching my face (had a FIST helmet on), I accessed my weak hand knife without any problems.

  3. #33
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Strong side front pocket.
    The P'kal is "waved" and the Delica is just a "Spydy hole".
    If I'm carrying weak side it'll be a fixed blade (centerline clinch pick), I don't trust my left hand dexterity enough to reliably deploy a folder.
    One thing you learn in ECQC and IAJJ is that a botched tool deployment is worse than no tool deployment.
    That makes sense. The more I look into the P'kal and the jab/strike and block/rip use, the more I admire the intuitive nature of it. After a little searching, most of what I'm seeing on the P'kal, including the videos of Craig that Tom posted, is strong side. It's peaked my interest enough that I went ahead and ordered one of the trainers off Amazon to try some of this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    When I carried purely folders (no fixed blade), it was one one each side and I practiced extensively my weak hand deployment so that I could do it without thought. When John Holshen had me on my back and punching my face (had a FIST helmet on), I accessed my weak hand knife without any problems.

    Thanks for the insight WB. I think having the trainer will allow me to experiment with deployment from both sides and see what happens. As I mentioned earlier, I've carried a Surefire E1B or EB1 in my support side pocket, in the same forward position Craig demonstrates, and have practiced the same drawing and striking motion with it for a long time. Not being familiar with the Spyderco P'kal nor the defensive use of knives, I've never considered the similarities of the motion/deployment. I think familiarity of this motion is what's drawing me to the P'kal.

  4. #34
    Keep at the pkal. When I 1st got mine I had already been spoiled by the waved delica, but once you get consistent w the pkal, the pay off is YUUUUUUUGE.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #35
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    If the P'kal isn't to your liking another option is a Karambit.
    I have a Spyderco Karahawk that I often carry and find it to be very easy to integrate into boxing or working in the clinch/entangled.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  6. #36
    Member Hatchetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    If the P'kal isn't to your liking another option is a Karambit.
    I have a Spyderco Karahawk that I often carry and find it to be very easy to integrate into boxing or working in the clinch/entangled.
    I have a fond place in my heart for karambits. Short lead hooks with one are very hard to do much against as most common hook parries/defenses leave you eating the blade. I have a Waved Fox karambit and it deploys so smoothly from a weak side pocket into a lead hook that it's the one Waved knife I really like. It's pretty hard to use a k-bit in a utility role however, and they look so darn evil that I expect they would pique the interest of any LEO who found you with one.
    "I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Lets start with typewriters."

    Frank Lloyd Wright

  7. #37
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    As far as specific training, other than the Insights course Michael de Bethencourt is the only one I'm aware of:

    http://snubtraining.com/essentials-o...folding-knife/

    No personal experience with him though; I planned to take this a few years ago but it was cancelled at the last minute.
    I've taken Michael de Bethencourt's 1-day knife class and included it in an AAR here.
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....es-10-11-13-13

    I've also taken Michael Janich's MBC, as instructed by Eric Mayes.
    http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/
    http://rmselfdefense.selfdefense-hap...-instrtuctors/

    Both classes advocated and emphasized simple maneuvers with common folders for regular folks. Various models of Spydercos were prominently featured for their simplicity and comparative expense. MdB's core techniques were more lethal in nature, and MBC's "defanging the snake"/biomechanical cutting kept lethality much more incidental. Both heavily emphasized pre-emptive retrievals. I got a lot out of both events, and will continue with these instructors and others mentioned in this thread.
    Last edited by ST911; 11-11-2015 at 10:01 PM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  8. #38
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    Thanks ST. It's funny you mention MBC. I was just over on TPI reading about "defanging the snake". I decided to search for more info about it and ended up finding this YT playlist on MBC with Michael Janich. Watching now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSF...wrPLykryuDoKrj

    ETA: I may have to pick up a few of the full length DVDs. Apparently, the "Enhanced Versions" show you how to train on your own. I realize DVDs are not a good substitute for live training, but I can't run out and take one of these classes next week, or the foreseeable future. Given what I know about using edged weapons, I have nowhere to go but up.
    Last edited by StraitR; 11-11-2015 at 10:29 PM.

  9. #39
    StraitR I just noticed you are in Central FL. I'm doing EWO in Copeland (Lauderdale) at Altair Training Solutions in January.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    I've deployed my Spyderco P'kal folder twice in ECQC evos, never was able to draw my gun.
    Same experience in Cecils class, I was able to deploy my Delica while entangled but not my handgun.
    Pretty typical. It is easiest to get a fixed blade out and deployed, but as long as there is at least a modicum of understanding of positional control, the folder can get out and stabbing. The greater the ability to get some positional control, the easier that happens.

    I just did a seminar in Chicago where during the final grounded exercise, one person with little ground experience panicked a bit and got the knife out when he was completely dominated. The other guy took the knife away and used it without even taking a breath.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

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