The cost of higher education is TOO DAMN HIGH!

[StraitR]

How much are they offering? Temp work, I suppose?

How much are they paying illegals...err, pardon me...migrants?

I keep hearing Americans won't work. Yet somebody is mining coal and flocking to the fracking fields, and that's bust ass, dirty, dangerous work. What's the disconnect?

I don't know what the going wages are for pickers on a farm, but I know they struggle to get local help, yet the same group of migrant workers...err, pardon me... illegals come season after season to pick. Pardon the hyperbole, but all I know is what I'm told across the Thanksgiving table. I suppose I'll have to ask more questions this year.

It's hard to speculate on the disconnect. I will surmise, however, that we're both probably painting too broad a stroke and it likely could be regional or generational. That is, people in and around their farm may not choose to work the farm, yet people located around said coal mines have a different perspective. Who knows, but if I possessed a formula to lower unemployment and simultaneously stoke our economy, I'd certainly share it.

[BobLoblaw]

I help people setting up gift accounts for their kids to offset the 6-7% inflation rate of higher education. Eventually (read: now) some might not even bother with college due to the future burden. The hard truth being that some degrees just aren't worth that price of admission (you know what majors I'm talking about).
People can spend their money how they please but I always push for gift accounts because it's becoming more and more common for folks to forego 4 yr. degrees and some kids get scholarships. Some become craftsmen and laborers, some follow the McRib across the country. Success is relative.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Josh Runkle]

I don't get the whinging people do about their student loan debt (or, frankly, the sister complaint of what a waste college is/was).

I left school with a BA of design in architecture, and most of a master's (didn't write my thesis) in construction management, and $50k+ in student loan debt I'm still paying on almost 15 years later and I'M GLAD TO HAVE IT! I am, by far, better off than nearly all of my friends I grew up with, even when you deduct the student loan payments from my income. I have more opportunities than them as well. Further, I actually LEARNED STUFF in both of my degree programs that I USE ALMOST DAILY in my career even 15 years later.

If people are mad about the time or the money they wasted in college, there's not really anywhere else to look than in the mirror.

I know several people I grew up with (more acquaintances than friends) that are better off than me that didn't go to college, and who made their own way. They took risks, and it paid off for them.

it strikes me that most of the people that cry about one thing or another related to college are mad that they followed the safe formula wherein they thought they were promised riches and happiness in exchange for continuing their pre-school to the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th grades and it didn't work out for them. That's not on anybody else but you.

But, comparatively, what experiences, certifications and books could you obtain for $50,000?

You could travel the world twice over, read nearly anything you wish and obtain certification in whatever this you felt was necessary to your long term goals.

I am in college now in my thirties because I have found a passion for medicine, a topic which can rarely be learned outside of a university environment (although, I did EMT and Paramedic School outside of a University, before continuing on).

The issue is not whether or not school is a good thing, but rather, is it worth the money?

I attended a community college (Columbus State Community College in Columbus, OH) where the professors are nearly all professors at The Ohio State University. Ohio State actually makes money on sports, makes money from inventing and selling results of experiments and new technologies, and makes lots and lots and lots of money from state and federal grants.

So, why does it cost about 6 times the cost of the community college for attendance? I could understand one and a half or two times the cost, but six?

Why am I forced to pay for outrageous student gym facilities or fancy free buses everywhere? The list of unnecessary things goes on and on.

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't know what the going wages are for pickers on a farm, but I know they struggle to get local help, yet the same group of migrant workers...err, pardon me... illegals come season after season to pick. Pardon the hyperbole, but all I know is what I'm told across the Thanksgiving table. I suppose I'll have to ask more questions this year.

It's hard to speculate on the disconnect. I will surmise, however, that we're both probably painting too broad a stroke and it likely could be regional or generational. That is, people in and around their farm may not choose to work the farm, yet people located around said coal mines have a different perspective. Who knows, but if I possessed a formula to lower unemployment and simultaneously stoke our economy, I'd certainly share it.

It's not regional or generational. It's simply that illegals do the work cheaper, so they get the work. My very first off-the-farm job was in construction. All the roofers were locals. Then, all of a sudden, they weren't. The illegals arrived, undercut wages because they lived 15 to an apartment and the Americans trying to raise a family couldn't bid the work that cheap and keep a roof over their head and their kid fed. So, they had to get factory jobs or go on the road with a union gig or what-have-you. Then that just kept expanding. My dad didn't just decide he didn't want to run a framing company any more. He couldn't play fair, pay taxes and worker's comp, provide health insurance to his workers, keep himself fed, etc. once the Mexicans started underbidding him by 30-40%. We're slitting our own throats for 2-3 cents off at retail and NOBODY wants to fix it. Democrats want the votes and Republicans want to keep labor cheap. Then we can conveniently say no one wants to work and just ignore it.

When people say "I can't get people to work for me, they are lazy", what they really mean is "I'm not paying enough to attract workers." It's hip and cool to blame the youth for being lazy, every generation does...but again, there's plenty of young men working in bust ass dangerous jobs...that they get paid enough to raise a family on.

[StraitR]

It's not regional or generational. It's simply that illegals do the work cheaper, so they get the work. My very first off-the-farm job was in construction. All the roofers were locals. Then, all of a sudden, they weren't. The illegals arrived, undercut wages because they lived 15 to an apartment and the Americans trying to raise a family couldn't bid the work that cheap and keep a roof over their head and their kid fed. So, they had to get factory jobs or go on the road with a union gig or what-have-you. Then that just kept expanding. My dad didn't just decide he didn't want to run a framing company any more. He couldn't play fair, pay taxes and worker's comp, provide health insurance to his workers, keep himself fed, etc. once the Mexicans started underbidding him by 30-40%. We're slitting our own throats for 2-3 cents off at retail and NOBODY wants to fix it. Democrats want the votes and Republicans want to keep labor cheap. Then we can conveniently say no one wants to work and just ignore it.

When people say "I can't get people to work for me, they are lazy", what they really mean is "I'm not paying enough to attract workers." It's hip and cool to blame the youth for being lazy, every generation does...but again, there's plenty of young men working in bust ass dangerous jobs...that they get paid enough to raise a family on.

And you could very well be right, again, I don't know what they offer for pay. Their business is over two hours away from us and we generally only see that portion of the family during holidays and vacations. What I know is via small talk, no first hand knowledge or experience in their hiring process.

That said, the company in which I work for cannot keep entry level employees in the manufacturing division. We're a small company, so I do have first hand knowledge of their pay, which starts at $14/hr as well as the company paying 75% of health insurance, which is extremely rare these days. Even still, the constant turnover of people weeding themselves out due to tardiness, insubordination, or just plain stopping to show up to work is astounding. Our business is unique for this area, and the only one like it. The plant is inside, the work is hardly laborious, and it's M-F. My point is, there are few quality jobs like it around here, both starting pay for general labor coupled with the benefits, yet they go through people like crazy. It's a cakewalk back there, and a well paid one given the minimal education level and experience requirements. The last guy that left cleaned our offices, air conditioned offices, so there's a lot worse jobs in FL, with a M-F 8-5 schedule for $14/hr. When I was his age, Uncle Sam was paying me considerably less in exchange for considerably more effort and sacrifice on my part. I wouldn't have quit if given the opportunity, because it was a commitment I made and work is just part of life.

So, while I cannot speculate on the issues at the farm, our employee challenges generally spur from laziness and entitlement. Either way, there are issues at hand that will not be solved anytime soon, that I'm sure we can agree on.

[rob_s]

The problem is that society is raising kids to pursue life in this manner.

Specifically, prolonged adolescence. Of which, college is largely an excuse for parents to keep their kids as kids, and for kids to avoid facing the real world.

Which doesn't mean it's not a useful tool.

What I don't get is the number of people that voluntarily go to college, voluntarily take out student loans, who are solely responsible for the degree program and courses they opt for, that whinge on about the process. Who's fault/choice is this again? One hint, it's not your parents'.

It's right up there with the assholes that bought houses at 2x the price the same house sold at 3 years before who then cry about being "upside down" on the mortgage due to "predatory lenders". Horseshit.

If someone thinks their $50k is better spent on cavorting around the world to a bunch of other countries and buying a bunch of random books to expand their minds, have at it. If you find someone to LOAN you the $50k to go do that, and who will allow you to effectively pay off that $50k over your entire lifetime and on your own terms, please forward me their contact information.

[GardoneVT]

Supply and Demand , folks.

There's only so many colleges and jobs for those degrees.
Yet the demand for college degrees is high; one because parents and high schools drive the mantra of "MOAR SCHOOL OR U FAIL AT LIFE". The kids may have no interest or aplitude in working in an office ,but that's what theyll be pushed to do as a cultural default. I can easily say half the kids I shared hallway space with as a returning student had no business being in a college classroom. They were only in the lecture halls because Ma and Pa wanted them there, not because they actually wanted to be there.

So , while many kids won't have the heart in it to really excel many more will do the bare minimum and graduate to shut up their folks. Then come graduation businesses see piles of unmotivated applicants for any job they offer. So wages go down ; not only are the more workers but theyre lower in quality. The politically connected and motivated students get work, everyone else gets an outstanding student loan bill and no income.

Ancillary to that , colleges have dispensed with education and now prioritize the college experience. Admissions and alumni offices realized mathbooks don't fill seats but big football games and glitzy feel good majors do. It's a trope now to see brand new football stadiums and kids housed in buildings made during the Kennedy Administration. That stuff costs money.

Lastly , the government. Imagine how much a car would cost if every teenager had access to a $50,000 non-dischargable loan to buy one? Some kids would be responsible. Most would be at the BMW dealership before sundown. Pretty soon a Ford Fiesta would cost $200,000 in that environment. Want poor people -of any skin color and gender-to go to college?

Abolish government aid, and let colleges compete the way McDonalds competes with Burger King. Then you might actually be able to afford a college degree without joining a Danny Ocean bank heist first.

[RoyGBiv]

What I don't get is the number of people that voluntarily go to college, voluntarily take out student loans, who are solely responsible for the degree program and courses they opt for, that whinge on about the process. Who's fault/choice is this again? One hint, it's not your parents'.

I'll agree that kids need to take responsibility for it, but disagree somewhat that it's not parents fault. Imagine yourself a 16/17yo, a Junior in HS, getting ready for the College/Workforce decision.... You have very few real life, financial decision-making skills at that point in your life. Even kids that have been brought up in a household where respectfully disagreeing with your parents is considered a good thing are still depending on their parents to help them with this decision. If your parents are ill-informed or inexperienced, the kids get bad advice or trendy advice. "I know you have no interest in college and don't know what you would do with more school, but you have to go to be competitive, even though we can't pay for it out of pocket and you don't qualify for scholarships.."

One of our kids expressed an interest in psychology.
Q: "What do you want to do with a psych degree?"
A:"Maybe do something to help kids"
<certainly a good attitude/goal>
Q: So, maybe Social Work or work in a school?
A: Yeah, maybe...
Q: It could cost more than $100,000 to get through college, what do you think those jobs get paid?
A: I don't know, really.
Q: Maybe you should look it up.

After looking things up (building critical thinking and self sufficiency skills) there was a switch to "Physical Therapy", "Pharmacy" or "Nurse Practitioner"... Similar education track, very different outcomes financially and socially. Parents influence the college and workforce decision heavily.... even when you have a truly smart kid that seems squared away and knows what they want to do.

[Tamara]

If the federal government guaranteed auto loans and made them non-dischargeable via bankruptcy, Hyundai Accents would cost a hundred long.

[Jeep]

If the federal government guaranteed auto loans and made them non-dischargeable via bankruptcy, Hyundai Accents would cost a hundred long.

Well, yes, but only for those few paying full freight. Suitably diverse customers, and good athletes, would pay nothing for their cars, while those who weren't diverse enough would pay for those who were. Meanwhile, grievance studies majors would suddenly have bright job prospects because every Hyundai dealership would have to hire at least one diversity officer for each officially recognized oppressed group and would have to offer counseling for those customers who think that the transmission is a micro-aggression.

And, of course, the dealership would have to have a football team, and head coaches aren't cheap.