When do you divorce a handgun?

[masternave]

I've been a glock guy for a couple of years. Put a class or three into it, a small bag of holsters and magazines and accoutrements. It's familiar, dependable, does the job.

Now I've been flirting with this VP9.

It shoots wherever I point it. There are some parts to it I'm still getting accustomed to, but out of the box I shoot *much* better with it. I haven't gotten down to timing or splits because I'm a total amateur, but it just feels like cheating sometimes.

I don't know if it's the gun or me… but I'm wondering if it matters.

When do you guys decide (if ever!) to sell out of a system, especially if you've put a lot of money and time into it? Have you ever done it and hen regretted it? What steps do you take to figure out if it's a mechanical issue with the piece, or a personal issue? (trigger press etc.)


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[GardoneVT]

Two criterion determine whether I change guns. I'd know, cause I've done it wrong a lot.

One: determine the logistical cost of new holsters, mags ,sights, and so forth. Do the math for a 1-1 match in capability.IE, old gun has night sights price what the new one would be with them too.

With some brands, especially premium Euro ones like HK, the cost of buying new mags and holsters alone can ruin a transition .

[41magfan]

I've always felt like the main objective in all forms of shooting was hitting my intended target. If "A" does that demonstrably better than "B" - with no insurmountable shortcomings - I'm probably going to go with the gun that produces a better result for me unless there's some compelling reason not to .... and I realize there can be a host of reasons not to.

[StraitR]

First, Glock seems to be the platform that most people love to hate. I've been shooting and carrying Glocks for a decade, with a few short affairs here and there. I also have a VP9, and I too shot it better right out of the box. It blew my mind, TBH. I've wrestled with the idea of a platform change, but I shudder at the thought of the financial costs of doing so as my support system runs DEEP for Glocks.

So many mags, plethora of holsters, sights, accessories... Aside from the monetary investment in the two (three) new pistols, the amount of money it would cost to replace all that support gear could fund close to 10k rounds of 9mm. My preferred holsters aren't cheap, nor are they readily available, VP9 mags aren't cheap, and then there's fact of hunting down all that gear, and the time that takes. Speaking of time, there's the hassle of selling it all off.

Also, you cannot discount the fact of massive aftermarket support and the availability of replacement parts, factory and otherwise. This is NOT the case for HK.

Lastly, with Glocks, I have been able to achieve full integration for a carry system, i.e. G43->G19->G17, and nobody else can do that.

Dammit, I freaking hate Glocks, but the pragmatic me won't abandon the system for the reasons above, and probably a few that I left out. I have my "Passion" guns when I need to feel warm and fuzzy, but I carry Glocks because I've found nothing that can do what they do better, from A to Z.

[psalms144.1]

There's a reason I haven't bought a VP9 to try out yet - I'm scared of what it'll do. I've been coming back to GLOCK from trying everything else for over 20 years now - and I have a HUGE collection of holsters for guns I don't own anymore, and, for some unfathomable reason, a small box full of "take off sights" from guns I don't own anymore. I have probably 25 magazines for my 9mm Glocks (three each from the primary pistols, and a STACK of G17 "reload" mags). All my GLOCKs wear the Ameriglo sights that work best for me, and aren't available for nearly any other make/model of pistol. To "divorce" myself from the GLOCKs that I love to hate (and hate to love) would be a major, major undertaking.

BUT, if/when I get a VP9, IF it shoots demonstrably "better" than my G19, I might be in the hurt locker. But, for me, DEMONSTRABLY is the key word. Before you spend a ton of money on a "better" pistol or more mags/holsters/sights/etc - GET A TIMER. Work the DoW or simple "speed" drills ON THE TIMER with both pistols, and see which one (if either) is really "better." If the timer is a tie, then the question boils down to concealment. Can you conceal the (demonstrably) larger VP9 well enough with your given attire that it can realistically take the place of the G19? If not, then your answer is clear. If it shoots the same (or better) at speed, and you can conceal it, then why not go for it?

I do agree whole-heartedly with 41magfan that putting the round where you want it under stress is the ultimate goal of any combat pistol, but, frankly, working with the G19 has proven that it can do anything that any reasonable competitor (1911s and the P7M8 notwithstanding) can do (accuracy wise) if I do my part. The rub is, for me, I have to be MUCH more conscious of things like trigger finger placement and trigger press on pure accuracy drills with the GLOCK than I do with many other pistols. Doesn't mean it can't be done, just means, a lot of time, I don't do my part when I'm rushing things on a long/difficult shot...

[HCM]

One thing to keep in mind is there is often a "honeymoon period" with a new gun, likely because you are consciously or unconsciously focusing more on your fundamentals. You may shoot the VP 9 markedly better or it may just be the honeymoon phase. I would give it six months to a year before I started selling off all my Glocks.

[okie john]

GardoneVT is pretty close.

Good holsters tend to cost the same for anything worth having, but you'll need new ones and you'll get 50-65% of purchase cost for any that you sell, plus there can be a lengthy wait time if you go with something truly odd.

Costs for mags and spare parts can vary too, but you have to consider extended parts life and maintenance intervals when you're talking about HK.

Until you run both guns on a timer, you'll never really know which one you shoot better. And you have to do this over a period of time to eliminate bias based on experience with your existing system from the mix. I'm also a Glock guy, and I check out potential replacements all the time. I find that I shoot the new ones very well at first, probably because I'm really focused on fundamentals. Then my skill level with Glocks picks up, probably because I'm really focused on fundamentals. After about 1k rounds, performance of both pistols will be all but identical except for 1-2 edge cases, like slow-fire accuracy at 50 and 100 yards. So I stick with Glocks.

But if you just plain like the VP9 more, then go with it and suck up the extra cost.


Okie John

[JonInWA]

I'll echo what StraitR, psalms144.1, HCM and okie john have already very succinctly said. If there truly is a significant benefit to be derived by going to the VP9, then go for it. Obviously, however, the devil is in the details of objectively determining if there really are significant improvements to be derived from making such a paradigm platform shift.

Personally, I side on the side of skepticism/keeping the Glocks. While the HK undoubtedly has more individual grip tailoring options, at the end of the day you have to determine if their ergonomic benefits are really worth the switch. Glocks tend to be durable, reliable, and exceptionally easy to field, use, and service-including enjoying exceptional aftermarket support from Glock and a plethora of other manufacturers. Detailed disassembly is easily performed by the operator, as are component swaps and trigger adjustments via component switches.

And then there's the accumulated muscle memory built up, along with holsters, sights, and magazines you've got.

In my opinion, from a due diligence standpoint you've got essentially 2 hurdles to surmount as an integral part of your assessment process:

1. Is the VP9 significantly, quantifiably better in critical use/performance aspects? and

2. Does the significance of improvement justify the cost outlay and the "transaction cost" of essentially starting from "ground zero" on a new system-from both an equipment and training standpoint?

If the answer is "yes" then drive on with the VP9. But I'd spend some significant time on it before divesting yourself of your Glocks-you might ultimately end up dissatisfied with the VP9, or hithero undiscovered flaws may pop up with it-it's still a relatively new and unfielded platform, regardless of HK's reputation on their other platforms.

Otherwise, you might be better off spending your resources on increased training with your Glocks.

Best, Jon

[JustOneGun]

I've been a glock guy for a couple of years. Put a class or three into it, a small bag of holsters and magazines and accoutrements. It's familiar, dependable, does the job.

Now I've been flirting with this VP9.

It shoots wherever I point it. There are some parts to it I'm still getting accustomed to, but out of the box I shoot *much* better with it. I haven't gotten down to timing or splits because I'm a total amateur, but it just feels like cheating sometimes.

I don't know if it's the gun or me… but I'm wondering if it matters.

When do you guys decide (if ever!) to sell out of a system, especially if you've put a lot of money and time into it? Have you ever done it and hen regretted it? What steps do you take to figure out if it's a mechanical issue with the piece, or a personal issue? (trigger press etc.)


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You didn't say what you are using the gun for. That can make a difference. For Self defense I would think that if you have never put your Glock on the clock then changing too soon can inhibit progress. If you've made the easy gains and have timed yourself then it is easy to put another gun on the timer with just a bit of practice and make a judgement as to which one you might shoot better.

If you haven't put each gun to the test on a timer then perhaps it is how the gun feels? There is a big difference between feel and testing outcome. That is certainly true for newer shooters. Or like me, a de-trained old retiree... (-:

And if it's not for self defense then what GardoneVT said.

[Mr_White]

When you catch it on the range making time with another shooter.