RDS on a SemiAuto

[Failure2Stop]

I wonder if a MRDS was designed such that when the dot is "out of the window" it would still illuminate a spot on the edge of the window/tube such that you could easily identify at least what direction the dot is in and if that would make it easier to track/find the dot on presentation and during recoil.

That would make me seriously consider the training cost of swapping.
At this point in my life (and technology), it just isn't worth it.
Not a permanent situation, just a current reality.

[orionz06]

I wonder if a MRDS was designed such that when the dot is "out of the window" it would still illuminate a spot on the edge of the window/tube such that you could easily identify at least what direction the dot is in and if that would make it easier to track/find the dot on presentation and during recoil. It'd be sort of like seeing the orange paint on my front sight even when it isn't in the rear sight notch.

I think that might be incredibly doable.

[willowofwisp]

I have been running a MRS for over 6 months now and 4000 rounds +, and while there are some deficiencies I think overall it works much better for ME compared to irons, I have ran the MRDS while shoting in the cold, heat, rain, snow, and at dark...and in all those conditions it has worked flawless. I don't necessarily find the field of view to be an issue, you can always use the MRDS as a large ghost ring which work inside of 10 yards in most cases.It does take some getting used to, but if your willing to put in the work in both live and dry fire it can be an awesome platform, I would say I am at least 20% faster at speed when shooting past 15 yards versus irons, while shooting inside of 10 yards I am probably equal with both.
I think one of the biggest lessons that helped me when shooting a MRDS was to not look for the dot, to a proper press out and look through the target and your dot would be there, at least in my case. If you don't like the MRDS you can remove the sight and a few companies make a metal plate you can screw over where the MRDS was mounted, and if you had BUIS installed you'll have a fully functional gun as before.

[peterb]

As my eyes get older my focal range seems to be narrowing, and the idea becomes more interesting.

Some of the slide-mount installations look very clean and useable, as opposed to monstrosities like this: http://pistol-training.com/archives/5340

[DocGKR]

As noted previously (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...ervice-pistols), we have been testing RDS equipped service pistols for the past 20 months or so. I became confident enough in the utility and efficacy of RDS equipped service pistols that I fully transitioned to carrying G19/G17 and M&P45's equipped by Mark Housel (http://www.landmprecisiongunworks.com/index.php) with Trijicon RMR02's since the beginning of 2011. Cost is not a profound barrier, as the price of a Glock or M&P with an RMR is not much more than a HK and is quite a bit less than a good quality custom or even semi-custom 1911. I have not yet had to change a battery on any of the RMR's--some now approaching 20 months of use. In addition to regular training, during this year I have shot in ToddG's March Sacramento class (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...CA-March-12-13), Pat McNamara's class this Summer at Chabot (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...stro-Valley-CA), as well as the recent Kyle Defoor class (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...stro-Valley-CA). Even though I am still a bit slower with an RDS equipped pistol, at no time did it leave me at the back of the pack--in fact I was among the top shooters for many of the drills in the classes. Yesterday I shot a witnessed 476 on the 500 pt Aggregate drill using the same G19rtf2 equipped with RMR02 as I used in the Defoor class:



With the onset of middle age presbyopia and following the damage to my vision from my unfortunate skull fracture two yrs ago, this is NOT something that I could still accomplish with iron sights--yet it is a relatively easy task with an RDS equipped pistol. So for me, the RDS is not just a good idea, it is the only way I am able to keep shooting pistols with any degree of aplomb.

G19 mag change from concealment at Defoor course:

[ToddG]

So for me, the RDS is not just a good idea, it is the only way I am able to keep shooting pistols with any degree of aplomb.

And that is what it really boils down to. The people who say "everyone should use MRDS" and the people who say "no one should use MRDS" are equally stupid. For some people -- whether it's skill, vision, or simply result priorities -- it works better; for some, it doesn't.

[fuse]

Excellent discussion gentlemen, as is tradition.

I have read a couple serious competition shooters express this online- "if you want to drastically improve your iron sight shooting, shoot an optic for a year."

I believe the theory is that learning to shoot a MRDS radically improves gun index (as a new shooter will at first constantly have the "dude, where's my dot" problem.)

Also, it's much easier to track a bright dot lifting than a front sight lifting, and when transitioning back to irons the MRDS proves to be a valuable introduction to true sight tracking.

I have never shot a MRDS equipped service pistol, and the above statements are opinions that are not my own.

Like many I am very intrigued with the ongoing development of MRDS hardware and mounting methods for service pistols.

However I am not aware of too many others who want to experiment with MRDS on pistols to hopefully improve their iron sight shooting.

Thoughts?

[DocGKR]

I find tracking a brightly colored front sight or sharp black front sight in bright sunlight to be easier than tracking a red dot. If you can track a red dot, you can EASILY track an iron front sight.

[ToddG]

Doc is absolutely correct. Well duh, he's got more MRDS pistol experience than just about anyone.

Having said that, when IPSC Open guys are talking about running a dot, they're also talking about running a comp'd gun with a frame mounted non-reciprocating dot. Tracking that is easy. Tracking a dot on a reciprocating (slide mounted) MRDS is much harder. There's a guy in class this weekend here in Indiana with one and he's doing well, no question. But I shot his gun a bit and there's just no comparison: the whole "visual control of the gun" thing gets way, way harder with a MRDS.

To his credit, the student has put a lot of thought and practice into his setup. He's got the tall iron back up sights that he uses for tracking and index reference and he's clearly making it work.

[vcdgrips]

Has anybody shot expert on thr FAST with a dot yet?

How many have shot advanced with it as well?

Just curious