A $7,500 gun with feeding issues?!?!

[BLR]

I was talking about the big parts, like the Caspian frame that you said was hard to work on.




And I guess that is insider secret knowledge.
But it seems a lot of gunsmiths find parts to be a steadier business than working on one gun at a time.



There is one gunsmith, who is absolutely batshit crazy about the difficulty of working on "metric Springfields." Seems to me that the file and stone take care of any rounding errors.

Big prts - Colt or Wilson. That's all I buy now.

Parts - I am refering to EGW.

Metric guns - never had an opportunity, so that is more relaying second hand information than anything else. I will say stone and file time is what makes a 3500 gun a 7500 gun though.

Cheers

[farscott]

I was talking about the big parts, like the Caspian frame that you said was hard to work on.




And I guess that is insider secret knowledge.
But it seems a lot of gunsmiths find parts to be a steadier business than working on one gun at a time.



There is one gunsmith, who is absolutely batshit crazy about the difficulty of working on "metric Springfields." Seems to me that the file and stone take care of any rounding errors.

The quoted post is on the money. I am not sure what happened to Todd's Caspian frame that required all of the work. In my experience, if there is an issue with a Caspian frame, Gary Smith will take care of it, up to and including making a new frame with the serial number and destroying the original frame. I know that David Sams had no qualms about building a 9x19 on Caspian frame and slide components, and that gun runs as well as any 9x19 1911 will. I also have had smiths send parts back to Caspian due to issues found, and those parts were replaced promptly with no hassle.

Not getting into who is the best smith, but guys who build their own guns like Chuck Rogers, Ned Christiansen, and John Harrison have no issues building on "metric" Springfields. I have shot whole guns built by name smiths on Springfield frame/slide kits as well as the work from SACS. I am of the belief that the SA frames and slides are as good as any out there, including the new Wilson frames and slides.

The parts business is a lot more lucrative and offers more return for less labor than slaving over one gun at a time. That is why so many "name" smiths sell parts.

[BLR]

The quoted post is on the money. I am not sure what happened to Todd's Caspian frame that required all of the work. In my experience, if there is an issue with a Caspian frame, Gary Smith will take care of it, up to and including making a new frame with the serial number and destroying the original frame. I know that David Sams had no qualms about building a 9x19 on Caspian frame and slide components, and that gun runs as well as any 9x19 1911 will. I also have had smiths send parts back to Caspian due to issues found, and those parts were replaced promptly with no hassle.

Not getting into who is the best smith, but guys who build their own guns like Chuck Rogers, Ned Christiansen, and John Harrison have no issues building on "metric" Springfields. I have shot whole guns built by name smiths on Springfield frame/slide kits as well as the work from SACS. I am of the belief that the SA frames and slides are as good as any out there, including the new Wilson frames and slides.

The parts business is a lot more lucrative and offers more return for less labor than slaving over one gun at a time. That is why so many "name" smiths sell parts.

"Metric" SAs, meaning Imbel. There is a significant difference between the Imbel guns and the NM guns. I don't know anyone who would prefer to build on an Imbel gun over an NM gun. Granted there are more variables at play than just Imperial vs SI units here.

I'm not beating up Caspian here. Just that the frame in question had issues. Not that anyone tried to get out of anything.

Caspian, and GS individually, are first rate. I did not, nor would I, imply that either of them did anything but good. Sometimes, it becomes a question of what needs to be fixed vs what has already been done. That frame had a ton of work done before the barrel bed issue was found.

Gary, Wilson, and Burton did a heck of a job. Period. This is why, given the choice, many gunsmiths prefer to start with guns they can shoot prior to working on them.

My point being, the holes and cuts on a SA are not necessarily in the same location as a Colt or as a Wilson or a Kimber.

My suggestion for this thread - the full story isn't as sordid as some people want to believe. Lots of people came together and moved mountains. While ultimately I didn't get my end done to anyone's satisfaction, I figure I had about 50 hours in trying to get that gun coated and blackened. As anyone who was on my FB feed at the time can attest, I worked my butt off to get that done.

Anyway, I'd not sweat that gun too much.

[BLR]

2. That gun, because it used a Caspian frame, contained (figuratively) a bag full of fleas. Jason did yeomen's work in getting it to run right. This gun had a barrel bed cut in the wrong location. Jason moved mountains to make it work. This exasperated a feeding issue caused by the mag well being way too long for the 9x19 cartridge. Thus pushing the feeding mechanism outside the reliable operation window.

I really didn't mean this the way, even though I wrote it....

Should be:

That gun, because of the location of the barrel bed, contained a bag full of fleas.... My apologies to Mr Smith and Caspian. That sure wasn't what I mean to say.

[Jim Watson]

That frame had a ton of work done before the barrel bed issue was found.

My FLG ran into something similar, he started work in an area away from the flaws by the time they became obvious, he had still burned a lot of daylight. No money lost when the part was replaced but time wasted.

This is why, given the choice, many gunsmiths prefer to start with guns they can shoot prior to working on them.

Makes sense. Find the big stuff that needs to be fixed on warranty before you start alterations. Then find the little stuff that needs to be handled in the customizing process.

[GJM]

For making something special by Jason, why not start with a Colt?

[Tamara]

For making something special by Jason, why not start with a Colt?

Harder to get a custom S/N from Colt?

ETA: Also, I have no idea what Colt's 9x19 offerings were like that year.

[Robinson]

ETA: Also, I have no idea what Colt's 9x19 offerings were like that year.

Good point; they were sparse or non-existant. Only in the past year did Colt start building any 9mm pistols (at least in any quantity) again, and even those were scaled back when the XSE line was discontinued.

[Jim Watson]

There were untold numbers of .38 Supers converted to 9mm before the manufacturers caught on.
You could have had a real nice convertible as a custom project on a name brand base gun.

[Mino]

Here is the story on that pistol, from my perspective.

1. Jason Burton is one of the top 2 actual, practicing, does his own work 1911 gunsmiths out there.
2. That gun, because it used a Caspian frame, contained (figuratively) a bag full of fleas. Jason did yeomen's work in getting it to run right. This gun had a barrel bed cut in the wrong location. Jason moved mountains to make it work. This exasperated a feeding issue caused by the mag well being way too long for the 9x19 cartridge. Thus pushing the feeding mechanism outside the reliable operation window.
3. When dealing with guns of this ilk (that is, of the highest standard), it is quite common for it to round trip to the maker for fine tuning. These are art work, and that gun was truly nice. It is not a $7500 gun feeding issues.

What Jason did with that gun was akin to what the old school guys like Boland did - taking something way out of wack and making it run right by talent and a bucket full of hard work.

I have never seen a completed Burton gun that didn't run perfectly. I have seen people with more money than experience scratching their head as to why their 1911 with a match barrel and match chamber didn't feed right with uber cheap reman ammo without a taper crimp. YMMV.

My (brief) return was to set the story straight on this - Jason is an amazing 1911 pistolsmith. That gun is typical Jason. Caspian and I did not live up to the standard the Heirloom did and still does. I would, and am, plunk down hard earned cash for a H-P/JB gun.

How about that - a post on a gun form that didn't contain insults!

Cheers all!

Bill

Who is the other of the top two?