Slight thread drift.
I wish to thank you then. Once I became aware of this holster we switched almost entirely to it for both our revolvers and S&W 4506's. It was truly one of the best thumb break holsters available. Unfortunately the latest versions now cant away from the body and the thumb break is rolled to far over. Currently issuing SLS for our revolvers and ALS for Autos. Although we still have a smattering of older Model 200's amongst the troops.Originally Posted by LSP552
Scott
Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."
Years ago, probably decades ago, the Modern Warrior folks did some pressure testing on this subject and found that a uniform duty belt holster worn towards the appendix position had several advantages, including ease of defending the gun from gun grabs, speed of draw, and access to weak hand only if the strong hand was injured.
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I currently use the Safariland 070 SSIII on duty (Mandatory by PD) at the 3:00 position. I never even thought to move it closer to the centerline, but now I am intrigued. I will be trying this out this week. I trained HARD to be fast on the draw with holster and can beat almost anyone in the department, but the new positioning may help even more now.
I am a bigger guy (6' 3" x 260 lbs.) and the curve built into the belt loop on the 070 is pretty extreme. Do you guys think that will be any issue with comfort further forward?
I tried it and liked it. The only problem I had was the vest getting caught up on the pistol and riding up when I sat down. Could find a work around that I could live with.
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
Welcome, but LSP972 and his predecessor are the real ones to thanks. They were also responsible for the Don Hume 416 mag pouch, the fastest/surest close top pouch I've ever used due to the V shape. Sadly, that's been discontinued also.
There was a time when LSP put a lot of time and effort into teaching troopers how to fight with a pistol, and spending a lot of time on maximizing the shooter/gear interface. Engagement environments can vary among agencies. While LSP does work in cities (heck, there has been a uniform group working high crime areas in New Orleans for some time), the majority of our shootings have historically been a single Trooper without backup. Several of these have been decided by speed from the holster and 1st round hits.
Times change.
Hi guys,
thank you all for sharing your insights, which is indeed very helpful for me. It is a pity but I have to wear a Blackhawk Serpa holster and I know it is crap, but I have no choice. The good thing is, that you can cant the holster so the grip is angeld backwards. Meanwhile I found, that I am faster ( as back in my old IPSC days ), that I can draw while seated and that I can grip the gun in the holster without sticking my elbow out. This is a standard procedure overhere in a typical "routine" situation like a vehicle stop. It does not look as agressive as with the elbow out, when the holster is worn at 3 or 4 o'clock. This of course is good for the political correctness but perhaps bad for showing the bad guys, that you are no easy meal.
What was it about the V shape that made these so great? What is your favorite mag pouch for duty now? I carry bianchi fake leather gear and use their mag pouches.
I like the idea of a thumb break, but I personally know an officer who almost lost his gun. He was using a Model 200 holster for a P226. Don't think it would have went that far with an ALS.
I retired in 2008 and was using the 416 at the time. I like the V shape because it allows plenty of room to grab and index the magazine. With some pouches, there isn't enough room between the magazines for an unobstructed grab. They were available with velcro or snap closure, and I preferred the velcro.
Thumb breaks
Times change, and I'm considered old school and behind the times on my preference for holsters that don't take three hands and a firearms instructor to rapidly draw them. My concern is how fast and sure the the average officer is working a level 3 under stress and movement. I'm not talking about people who practice, I'm talking about the average trooper, deputy, officer who shoots quals only and hangs the gun belt on the chair at night, which is the majority in most agencies I'm familiar with.
I'm aware of an LSP trooper who was probably saved by a by a personally owned security holster. This ultimately led to them becoming an issue item. I'm also aware of cases where the officer failed to get his gun out in a timely fashion, and of cases where speed from the holster and 1st round hits absolutely decided the issue. The old place still allows personally owned weapons and gear and there are dinosaurs who cling to their SIGs (and Glocks) in different leather.
IMO, it's about preference, environment and outlook. I'm much more offensive oriented instead of defensive, and I know that's not the trend today. I believe environment is also a factor. In my old agency, patrol guys worked alone and were often 30 minutes away from backup. I believe weapon retention is about training, awareness and mindset. Hardware (of any flavor) is never a substitute for software.
IMO, gun grab = immediate application of deadly force by knife, backup gun or teeth. And it's a fact that some officers struggle with making the mental shift to kill this asshole now and choose to tussle.
Strongly echo LSP552's statements. Only upon the advent of both the SLS and ALS systems was I open to general issue of security holsters to my personnel. It was my observation that your rank and file would not put enough effort in practicing drawing to prevent disaster under duress. I mean look at Safariland's own literature, they stressed a minimum of 1000 draws before wearing the holsters in the field. If someone came to me and wanted to carry a retention holster he would have to show me that he put the time in practicing to a competent level before I would sign off on their using that holster.
Now mission drives gear and the SHTF if one of my guys had to go hands on with any assailant. The SLS and ALS are intuitive enough that I no longer have those doubts.
IMO for today's LEOs retention features are a must for uniform duty. Believe me, my son being a newly minted LEO has this old man whispering in his ear (read kicking in the ass) about training and keeping his head on straight.
Last edited by rsa-otc; 10-09-2015 at 07:54 AM.
Scott
Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."
I've never carried anything other than traditional oclock with a duty holster, I don't like anything close my hip as its super uncomfortable and if I push it any more forward it'll be almost at an appendix position which just doesn't work with a safariland holster with lots of retention features.
I do see some of our motorcycle guys wearing as close as possible to the 1 oclock position while riding, more of a not hitting stuff thing than anything else, they also carry in these types of holsters:
If given the opportunity, with any new developments in technology, I'd probably carry appendix, OWB, as long as there is retention other than friction.
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