Beyond Mexican Carry

[MGW]

Two years ago I found a place in Facebook that had the Fermas. They were getting ready to go to shot at the time and asked me to call them after. I lost the number and haven't been able to find them again since.

Maybe someone should stock JJ at one of his matches and ask him about it. Last I checked it's still on his website as not available yet. Maybe one of the alphabet organizations bought them all up. I wouldn't want to use one with a Glock but if I could get my hands on one it would be a good excuse to buy a P239 or something similar.

The setup in the video has issues to say the least.


Sent from my grey matter using telepathy.

[eyemahm]

That holster has been around for over a decade as the Frema Holster (it was patented in 2002). I've never seen it available for sale anywhere. Maybe I've finally found a product that's taken longer than the gadget to come to market.

A friend of mine has one (not sure how, but I can ask if people are curious), and I got a chance to inspect it once. There is a large, rectangular plastic piece that fits under your belt/behind the fly and behind that piece is a narrow, squared off hook that the front of the trigger guard is meant to rest on. That's it. There is nothing that restricts lateral movement of the gun or access to the trigger guard from side or rear. And since the grip is seemingly supposed to rest underneath the belt line, the grip is quite difficult to access. In the YouTube demo, there's a mysterious contortion JJ seems to have mastered that makes the pistol pop out of nowhere, but in the brief time I had with it, I was not able to replicate that effect.

Maybe I missed the magic of it, but I wasn't particularly impressed by the design, fit or finish (it's very clearly a $2 piece of Chinese plastic), and can't imagine feeling comfortable using one to carry with a round chambered.

Maybe with some effort, a couple folks here might find it valuable in extreme NPEs, but to be frank, we have much better options available to us for low ride or custom very low ride holsters.

[runcible]

Ab-bracing a firearm for carry isn't anything too new; but it really calls for owning the initiative before and through the weapon being accessed, and it's not as easy to pull that off if you're not part of a mugging crew. This variant is a bit odd, as it compromises access and concealment less favorably then other variations; I'm guessing as a consequence of the configuration (metal framed firearm, with a full magazine present) and the size of the weapon relative to the bearer. Additionally, as noted earlier, this definitely requires two hands to access, as one must rotate the weapon through a significant arc as the other hand waits to assert its' grip.

The Five-0 allows for using some of the handwork of that ab-brace technique, while providing for having a magazine inserted and not requiring continuous isometric pressure to keep things put. When the pistol is at rest in its lowest position, it occludes the trigger guard on the outer facing (with standoff), while thee inner facing is occluded by the bearer themselves (with standoff). Specifics vary when the pistol is in its elevated position. The pistol is moved from the lower position to the elevated by pressing upwards against the muzzle from where it protrudes below the edge of the plastic; there are some whom are very proficient at doing this in one fluid motion, wholly one-handed. Access without performing that successfully, is effectively impossible.

While I have significant issues with some of the build-elements of the Five-0, and mentioned the same the next-to-last time JJ and I talked; "it's very clearly a $2 piece of Chinese plastic" seems misleading and unsupported.

Without casting aspersions on JJ or the design intent behind the rig, it was nicknamed "the assassin holster" for good cause - it'd be great for mugging dudes and other such, but it has significant compromises when one is the reacting party. Outstanding in the entangled retention department, less so beneath the rubric of entangled weapon-access.

[BehindBlueI's]

Pot belly? No, Sir, that's my retention device.

[fsilber]

Ab-bracing a firearm for carry isn't anything too new; but it really calls for owning the initiative before and through the weapon being accessed, and it's not as easy to pull that off if you're not part of a mugging crew. This variant is a bit odd, as it compromises access and concealment less favorably then other variations; I'm guessing as a consequence of the configuration (metal framed firearm, with a full magazine present) and the size of the weapon relative to the bearer. Additionally, as noted earlier, this definitely requires two hands to access, as one must rotate the weapon through a significant arc as the other hand waits to assert its' grip.

The Five-0 allows for using some of the handwork of that ab-brace technique, while providing for having a magazine inserted and not requiring continuous isometric pressure to keep things put. When the pistol is at rest in its lowest position, it occludes the trigger guard on the outer facing (with standoff), while thee inner facing is occluded by the bearer themselves (with standoff). Specifics vary when the pistol is in its elevated position. The pistol is moved from the lower position to the elevated by pressing upwards against the muzzle from where it protrudes below the edge of the plastic; there are some whom are very proficient at doing this in one fluid motion, wholly one-handed. Access without performing that successfully, is effectively impossible.

While I have significant issues with some of the build-elements of the Five-0, and mentioned the same the next-to-last time JJ and I talked; "it's very clearly a $2 piece of Chinese plastic" seems misleading and unsupported.

Without casting aspersions on JJ or the design intent behind the rig, it was nicknamed "the assassin holster" for good cause - it'd be great for mugging dudes and other such, but it has significant compromises when one is the reacting party. Outstanding in the entangled retention department, less so beneath the rubric of entangled weapon-access.

I see one youtube video in which a man claiming to be the inventor talks about having a patent and it being illegal to make the holster without his permission, and that he is seeking a manufacturer to do so and pay him royalties. I wonder if the patent issue is the reason the version sold by JJ Racaza is no longer on the market.

I'm not sure why runcible questions its utility for self-defense. Is the pistol not stable and secure when carried in that holster? It seems far faster than any other deep concealment holster. Some people might consider the carry position unsafe, but I want to try it with an HK P7, which would seem to be very safe for that style of carry.

It is very frustrating that I cannot seem to find anyone willing to sell me one.

[runcible]

"I'm not sure why runcible questions its utility for self-defense. Is the pistol not stable and secure when carried in that holster? It seems far faster than any other deep concealment holster. Some people might consider the carry position unsafe, but I want to try it with an HK P7, which would seem to be very safe for that style of carry."

fsilber,

Please feel free to ask me any questions that still remain after reading my post earlier in this topic. Would you say that I addressed my concerns regarding carried stability, carried security, and reactive access; earlier? If not, what can I do to clear things up?

What is your personal experience rolling about with that rig, and rolling with those who are running that rig?

[Jeep]

That holster has been around for over a decade as the Frema Holster (it was patented in 2002). I've never seen it available for sale anywhere. Maybe I've finally found a product that's taken longer than the gadget to come to market.

Perhaps, but the "Gadget" clearly has the much superior post-modern, intentionally ironic, name. It practically screams "if you don't know what I do you aren't gun-cool enough to even think about buying me." The whole delay-in-coming-to-market-thing merely adds to the coolness factor, because it screams (a whole lot of screaming going on here, obviously), "and we're too cool to even care about actually selling this."

If you don't already have them, I think you are going to need a set of retro mirrored sunglasses (think 1960's films) to wear at all times, and especially indoors, to make the marketing seamless.

[23JAZ]

https://www.facebook.com/richard.ced...1054332438205/
https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10201054332438205

Cody

IMHO I'm willing to bet 99% of the serious shooters here could put 2 into that idiot's sternum and one through the bridge of his nose before he could cock that POS.

[fsilber]

"I'm not sure why runcible questions its utility for self-defense. Is the pistol not stable and secure when carried in that holster? It seems far faster than any other deep concealment holster. Some people might consider the carry position unsafe, but I want to try it with an HK P7, which would seem to be very safe for that style of carry."

fsilber,

Please feel free to ask me any questions that still remain after reading my post earlier in this topic. Would you say that I addressed my concerns regarding carried stability, carried security, and reactive access; earlier? If not, what can I do to clear things up?

What is your personal experience rolling about with that rig, and rolling with those who are running that rig?

Yes, I had read your post. No, I have never seen the Racaza/Frema holster in person, much less touched one.

You said its use required "owning the initiative" -- but you didn't explain _why_ it required owning the initiative. In the videos it appeared quite fast to me, and when you're behind the curve it would seem to me that faster is better.

You said it's not easy to pull out if you're not part of a mugging crew, but you didn't explain what made it hard to pull out in reactive mode (as compared with, say, a pocket holster, a tuckable holster, or a holster in a fanny pack).

You said this variant ... "compromises access and concealment less favorably then other variations" -- I'm not sure what you were trying to say there.

You mentioned that access is virtually impossible without first pushing the gun up by pressing on the muzzle; I don't see why that's a problem. (It would give me a shudder to press on a loaded gun's muzzle, but not with the squeeze-cocking HK P7 I would want to use with it.)

You mentioned that one must rotate the weapon through a "significant arc" as the other hand waits to assert its grip. What is this arc? From the videos it _appears_ as though pressing the muzzle causes the gun to pop straight upwards.

[LittleLebowski]

Perhaps, but the "Gadget" clearly has the much superior post-modern, intentionally ironic, name. It practically screams "if you don't know what I do you aren't gun-cool enough to even think about buying me." The whole delay-in-coming-to-market-thing merely adds to the coolness factor, because it screams (a whole lot of screaming going on here, obviously), "and we're too cool to even care about actually selling this."

If you don't already have them, I think you are going to need a set of retro mirrored sunglasses (think 1960's films) to wear at all times, and especially indoors, to make the marketing seamless.

You know, you got really nasty about something you know nothing about. You deserve any shame you might feel in saying "The whole delay-in-coming-to-market-thing merely adds to the coolness factor, because it screams (a whole lot of screaming going on here, obviously), "and we're too cool to even care about actually selling this." considering one of the partners in this company has brain cancer and the other one's wife was shot.

I do not understand why grown men act so catty on the internet.