Continuing the GM/Rogers/FAST/shooter measurement part of the discussion, which is something I find fascinating:
I hold the GM ranking in pretty high esteem, myself. GMs aren't immune to screwing up. They get things wrong. They get less wrong than lower ranked shooters generally do though. The USPSA classification system has some aspects that annoy me a bit, but I think it is one of the important and meaningful shooting achievements that are easily measured.
The Rogers Test measures consistency in the tasks in the test. I feel certain that really going for it and shooting the Rogers Test in a zero or hero manner is not going to get one a very good score. My experience at Rogers was that I can match or exceed top GMs within the bounds of what they test there. If you put me into a short contest with those GMs that's measured by hit factor (like USPSA classification stages), they are probably going to kick my ass. If you put me into a long contest with them measured by hit factor (like a whole USPSA match), they are probably going to kick my ass by ten miles. I'm not about to win any Area match. Wish I could say differently, but that's just not the way it is right now.
My gripe with the USPSA classification system, and it's not really a huge gripe, is that it tends to disregard consistency in favor of the high scores a person can reach. This is because of dropping scores that are more than 5% below the shooter's current classification. I often half-joke that if they did away with that piece of the classification system, ~75% would be the new 100%. I don't know if that's really true, but I don't think it takes away from the high level of skill required to be a GM, even with the system that's in place now. The system still does a good job of identifying and ranking different levels of shooter relative to each other. USPSA
match results are very much about consistency, and in that way are somewhat different from the game-within-a-game that is the classification system, but match results are still very clear - generally, GMs place higher than Ms, who place higher than As, who place higher than Bs, and it keeps going in order of classification. There is certainly some amount of overlap, and there are some individuals probably fairly characterized as under or over classified, but in aggregate I think the system does rank people relative to each other pretty accurately, even despite what I think are flaws in the system.
GSSF is kind of a fun measure. Well, fun for me, because in GSSF I am on par with people who are some of the better shooters in USPSA. So then I can feel less bad when they stomp me in that venue.
GSSF is narrowly focused on a massive level of consistency at some modest shooting problems.
What about the FAST Challenge? To win the coin, it requires a lot of consistency at moderately difficult shooting and gunhandling tasks. Top GMs clearly can do this in the mid-3s, at least in practice. So can I, but I am not a top GM or any kind of GM for that matter - just an M. Circumstance and the resulting pressure also can mean a lot. For me, there was a ton of self-generated pressure when I was trying for the FAST coin. I hosted Todd at the range I work at, the class was full of my students, and I had a couple chances to do it right here right now, or fail, and maybe never have another opportunity to try. How many of the twelve FAST coins have been won in class, and how did the other circumstances differ? Circumstances may vary, but pressure is also subjective. I think Robert Vogel is the only one who did it on his actual first try. His scores were mid-4s, but I think there was some equipment stuff going on with him, IIRC. I seem to remember reading that SLG won the coin in front of his whole team, so that should have been some good pressure to be under. Dave Sevigny holds the world record at 3.56, but he was grandfathered in with video submissions, which is not something anyone else gets to do. I don't think there is a lot of question about Dave Sevigny being able to throw down under pressure though. So what does winning a FAST coin mean? Looks to me like it means certain things, and not others. It definitely means something and it doesn't mean everything. It is one of many significant tests and measurements. I thought it was plenty difficult myself.
I think you are a really good shooter, Les. GM for one thing. GM who I know has done well at major matches for another. Advanced at Rogers. Can shoot the FAST in mid-3s at least in practice. Plus the other coins, challenge tags, pins, etc. That all adds up to mean to me that you are a good friggin shooter, and I feel even more confident in saying so because there are some different measurements in there.
So I guess, to finish this stream of consciousness ramble, the main point to get at here is that there is a mismatch between the consistency of GMs that SLG reports and the consistency of GMs that seems discernible through USPSA match results. So how do we reconcile that?
I personally think what is really at odds is the difference between looking at a shooter skill level mostly in terms of consistency/not screwing up, as the central defining feature of skill level, vs. seeing shooter skill level as a
range of performance that includes both the height someone can reach and their consistent performance as different points in that performance range - the difference between the heights and the consistency may vary somewhat by individual shooter strength and weakness, but they are also inherently connected because they are part of an individual's overall range of performance. I think different measurements look at different points in that performance range and thus produce different answers.
Originally Posted by breakingtime91
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