What is "subMOA" to you?

[dbateman]

5 shots under one moa at any given range.

[LittleLebowski]

I was shown the idea of shooting a separate dot for each round several years ago after some friends returned from Rifles Only. I really like the idea of putting them, 1" dots on a page and if you're >50% in each dot then you're good.

That's where I got the idea.

[MDS]

A Bearded Tier One taught me the 1-shoot group technique, measuring the spread at the grease ring. This yielded the best improvement in my shooting since I got my timer customized.

But if I ever choose to do 5- or 10-shot groups, what's the logic behind using a separate dot/target for each one?

[LittleLebowski]

But if I ever choose to do 5- or 10-shot groups, what's the logic behind using a separate dot/target for each one?

I think it is just a different way to do things. One can argue that it is slightly harder because you have to adjust your weapon for each target (minutely to be sure), I suppose.

For me, it's a great confidence builder as opposed to simply hammering at one POA with 5-10 rounds.

[LittleLebowski]

For a good or consistent shooter, I would like to come up with stats for at least 20 groups of at least 5 rounds per group which includes the cold bore / cold shooter.

That would wear me out with regards to shooter fatigue and the same for many others, I would bet.

[UNK]

That's the point of three hundred yard qualification rapid fire dog target. Change magazines in the middle of the string reacquire stock placement stock weld and sight picture. Once you are locked in its a lot easier to maintain than to get.

I think it is just a different way to do things. One can argue that it is slightly harder because you have to adjust your weapon for each target (minutely to be sure), I suppose.

For me, it's a great confidence builder as opposed to simply hammering at one POA with 5-10 rounds.

[JHC]

re the MOA measurement of shots to different 1" dots . . .

I figured it had martial or hunting reasoning. Each shot in the field is a single shot. No groups for score. So how close to that 1 MOA each discrete shot can be made indicates MOA on a field target be they game or enemy. Just spit ballin'

[LittleLebowski]

re the MOA measurement of shots to different 1" dots . . .

I figured it had martial or hunting reasoning. Each shot in the field is a single shot. No groups for score. So how close to that 1 MOA each discrete shot can be made indicates MOA on a field target be they game or enemy. Just spit ballin'

To me, it's a practical test as opposed to actually measuring a group size with calipers. Simply hit each dot.

With full credit to Frank Galli and SnipersHide, here are the aforementioned dot drills (PDFs)

SnipersHide Dot Drill

SnipersHide Advanced Dot Drill

[LittleLebowski]

Well done, well done. I love ARF's "1 MOA All Day Long" challenge.

5 shots at 100 yards measuring less than 1.047" is subMOA in my book. How many times you want to repeat that is up to you but I would say the average of five groups is good.

I did the Arfcom 1 MOA All Day Long challenge last year with my Tikka Sporter 223 and five, 5-shot groups averaged .762 MOA. I was pretty pleased with this since it is a factory rifle, and I was just working up loads when I did it. Largest group was slightly over an inch and smallest was .638. Requirements were to use a bipod and a small bag without support ears which puts a lot more stress on the shooter to perform.

On the other hand when you shoot two groups in a row that look those in this picture, you pretty much know the gun is capable of subMOA, more like sub 1/2 MOA.


I know Molon likes 10 shot groups and I respect that as well.

[rob_s]

I think it is just a different way to do things. One can argue that it is slightly harder because you have to adjust your weapon for each target (minutely to be sure), I suppose.

For me, it's a great confidence builder as opposed to simply hammering at one POA with 5-10 rounds.

All of this.

To me, the question is not "how many rounds can I put into a single POA?" but "how close to a single POA can I come with a single round?" A minute (get it, "minute"?) distinction to be sure, but one that just resonates in my brain for whatever reason.