Fast and Furious

[JDM]

Can someone give me, or point me in the direction of a concise, detailed summary of the events thus-far?

I've read quite a bit, but I am still having trouble understanding exactly what's going on.

Thanks.

[NickA]

http://rinosandrats.com/2011/09/the-...view-timeline/
Not exactly concise but seems to be accurate, also points to several good sources including the blogs that originally broke the story.
(hope the link works ok, trying to do this from my phone)

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[JFK]

I am still having trouble understanding exactly what's going on.

I think that this is by design....

[JDM]

Thanks Nick.

[MikeO]

I got a call from an ATF agent the other day. Nine (9) guns found at recent crime scenes (some in Mexico) were traced back to me as the original buyer!?

Most were purchased here in ABQ in the last few years, but one was purchased by me in Santa Maria CA when I was stationed at Vandenberg AFB in CA back in 1997!?

I've been selling and trading guns legally since 1978 as an individual, not a licensed dealer. They were always to other USAF guys I worked with. One airman gave the gun I sold to him when we were both stationed at Nellis AFB in Las Vegas NV in the 80s to his father who was an APD officer here. That airman later was involved in a gun crime and discharged. Taking the hints (some, but not all?) the fates were sending me, in 1989 I decided to limit all my gun selling and trading directly to licensed dealers. That way there is official documentation of at least one FFL and/or owner between me and trouble. That trouble I thought was possible but not probable turned out to be inevitable.

ATF is taking a lot of flack over the Fast and Furious fandango, and they should. This NRA Life Member thinks all the ATF agents I have dealt with over the years are good guys and gals I respect, not "jack booted govt thugs". I know there are bad apples and botched ops, but I've run afoul of neither. Bad guys are bad enough, good guys like me make a hard job harder, if not impossible? The local ATF agent who contacted me most recently did it by phone. Previously they have come by my home for polite conversations, not harsh interrogations. They knocked on the door, they did not kick it in. I appreciate that, all things considered.

[TCinVA]

The rank-and-file ATF agents aren't the source of the problem. In fact, if I remember correctly it was many of the rank and file who said that the actions taken in the gunrunner project were idiotic.

The problem is that the ATF as an institution promotes either complete idiots or anti-gun crusaders to positions of power as is evidenced by the ATF's perpetual involvement in shenanigans that range from embarrassing to lethal. The people promoted to senior positions in an organization have significant impact on the culture and behavior of the institution as a whole...and what the ATF really needs is a good spring cleaning to get rid of those toxic personalities which drive it to behave like the short bus rider of federal law enforcement.

[TGS]

I talked about this with TC and Todd over dinner. The average agent isn't bad.....just because you're ATFE, doesn't mean you're a bad apple. Obviously this is true since it's ATFE agents that brought this whole issue to light.

My personal take is that the institution is corrupt. From what I can tell as an outsider, it lacks a corporate culture, or command climate(whatever your preference) that holds people accountable. Between 2002-2007, 70+ firearms and 400+ laptops were missing, lost or stolen from BATFE. Carl Truscott's mismanagement and Russel Vanderwerf's glory hole are examples of poor accountability as well. Sure, every organization will have problems with their people......that's a given. But the agency's way of handling their problems is disappointing.....people tend to be reassigned instead of be held accountable.

That, at least, is the way I read it as an outsider. On the issue of the guns missing....hey, for anyone else here who was in the Marines, can you imagine what would happen if one weapon went missing? It wouldn't just be accounted for at the end of the year.....the second it was recognized as missing, hell would have frozen over. The unit wouldn't go home until it was found. Time would essentially stop. Heads would roll. That's my experience with accountability......

[Occam's Razor]

Having, at one time, been part of this bureaucracy the root of the problem (to me) is that, as has been said essentially, bureaucrats have been put in charge of what were originally developed as LE agencies. Ever since DHS was created, everyone is fighting for their piece of the pie. They care more about justifying their existence than doing the job. Caution to the wind, tried and true ethics and investigative tactics gone. Spend money to justify more money to insure they get more of the budget. DHS is a joke. Create an agency to employ more unqualified yahoos so each of those agencies involved has to fight harder to justify their own existence. Works for them, just not for us.

[F-Trooper05]

can you imagine what would happen if one weapon went missing? It wouldn't just be accounted for at the end of the year.....the second it was recognized as missing, hell would have frozen over. The unit wouldn't go home until it was found. Time would essentially stop. Heads would roll. That's my experience with accountability......

Shit, I've stayed out all night during FTX's looking for missing flashlights and MRE's.

[NickA]

This might be urban legend but supposedly ATF once handed out Leatherman tools to agents marked with Always Think Forfeiture. If true it pretty much illustrates the mindset of the higher ups.

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