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Thread: Training Priorities for H2H Integration - one perspective

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    125mph - was there something specific I could address for you?
    Sorry, I guess I did ask a pretty open question there. What are your thoughts on strong side vs appendix carry in this realm? Is there a big advantage to one or the other or is it just one of those things where each present different issues that you need to account for.

    If it helps to get where I'm coming from, I've been training BJJ for a some time now and while I'm not a world class competitor I'm pretty comfortable with my ability to make space and get to a dominant position if I have to. I haven't done any training that integrates weapons with grappling though and that's something I know I need to address.



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  2. #22
    Cecil, thanks very much for the write-up. I look forward to the opportunity to train with you some day.

    To add an additional perspective, in my experience Areas 1, 2, and 5 really requires some dedicated attention and practice. Taking ECQC really brought that to light in that it's easy to get lost in the orthodoxies of a particular fighting system and lose sight of it's integration into a total self-defense package.

    IMHO, taking a year of BJJ and Muay Thai, with some time spent "putting them together" in MMA, and THEN taking an ECQC (or similar program) as an assessment of how well things are coming together would be a great approach to a comprehensive self-defense plan. I certainly intend on taking further ECQC classes to "gauge" my own progress.

    Anyway, just my $.02!

  3. #23
    Site Supporter MDS's Avatar
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    Awesome thread, Cecil, thanks! I'd love to hear your thoughts about training "gently" to avoid injury. I can go hard but it costs me more every year, if you know what I mean...
    The answer, it seems to me, is wrath. The mind cannot foresee its own advance. --FA Hayek Specialization is for insects.

  4. #24
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc000 View Post

    IMHO, taking a year of BJJ and Muay Thai, with some time spent "putting them together" in MMA, and THEN taking an ECQC (or similar program) as an assessment of how well things are coming together would be a great approach to a comprehensive self-defense plan. I certainly intend on taking further ECQC classes to "gauge" my own progress.
    ECQC is certainly a measure if not *the* measure for ones skills but I'm not sure what is gained by waiting to take it. There is too much material that is basic enough for someone to grasp and implement in just a weekend to wait a year and a half to take the class. You'll then have a filter to view your other training. Retake it later on as an audit.

    MUC is a pretty big piece to lose out on as well and I think it's the most useful aspect of the class. You've conceded the non-contact part of the fight and decided on a coin toss on the ground with a potential initiative deficit. Pretty hard to overcome what is a MUC failure. Even if you "win" the entangled gunfight you've still been in an entangled gunfight. If you "win" MUC you may not even call the cops.





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  5. #25
    Licorice Bootlegger JDM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post

    MUC is a pretty big piece to lose out on as well and I think it's the most useful aspect of the class. You've conceded the non-contact part of the fight and decided on a coin toss on the ground with a potential initiative deficit. Pretty hard to overcome what is a MUC failure. Even if you "win" the entangled gunfight you've still been in an entangled gunfight. If you "win" MUC you may not even call the cops.





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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    ECQC is certainly a measure if not *the* measure for ones skills but I'm not sure what is gained by waiting to take it. There is too much material that is basic enough for someone to grasp and implement in just a weekend to wait a year and a half to take the class. You'll then have a filter to view your other training. Retake it later on as an audit.

    MUC is a pretty big piece to lose out on as well and I think it's the most useful aspect of the class. You've conceded the non-contact part of the fight and decided on a coin toss on the ground with a potential initiative deficit. Pretty hard to overcome what is a MUC failure. Even if you "win" the entangled gunfight you've still been in an entangled gunfight. If you "win" MUC you may not even call the cops.
    Yes, you're right, I didn't want to say you shouldn't take ECQC without having a year of training under your belt. The point I was trying to make is that after having put together a solid h2h foundation (thinking that year minimum), taking an ECQC at that point can help you refine those skillsets further and in ways previously not considered or understood.

  7. #27
    Member Dropkick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc000 View Post
    Yes, you're right, I didn't want to say you shouldn't take ECQC without having a year of training under your belt. The point I was trying to make is that after having put together a solid h2h foundation (thinking that year minimum), taking an ECQC at that point can help you refine those skillsets further and in ways previously not considered or understood.
    Or you find out at ECQC that you've wasted that prep time doing worthless crap. Ask me how I know...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dropkick View Post
    Or you find out at ECQC that you've wasted that prep time doing worthless crap. Ask me how I know...
    Yeah, well... all part of the assessment process. Can certainly be a painful one!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dropkick View Post
    What kind of insight can you provide about the transitions between areas during a fight? Especially when the transition is happening to you, instead of by your choice.

    Like the question about IFWA, this is pretty open-ended and I could write for a long time about it.

    The main things I would point out are:

    1) the better you are at the set spots, the easier the transitions are. IOW, You are only going to get so good at transitioning from outside range to an entanglement if your clinch skills are poor.

    2) It is easier to handle the opponent's transitions if your primary focus is on staying safe, rather than pulling off some awesomely cool offensive move yourself. Too many people get to thinking about the end of the fight where they are victorious, and forget about not opening up vulnerable windows during the fight.

    3) To really work transitions especially those involving weapons, you are going to have to either find or build a training group to work those areas. It is difficult to find training partners at the typical gym (regardless of style - even in one nominally more "street" oriented like a Krav Maga school) who are willing to do that kind of work. You need to over time find some like minded people to practice.

    4) You need to get mentoring/coaching from a knowledgeable person who has spent time in this area. Not the guy who is jumping in suddenly to try to cash in, and who has had at most a couple of years doing it. Get to ECQC. Train with Craig, or Paul Sharp, or Chris Fry (his upcoming seminar at TAD will be all about this kind of work) or Larry Lindenman or a small group of like instructors. The one thing all these guys have in common is a willingness to help people even outside the confines of a seminar.
    For info about training or to contact me:
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by 125 mph View Post
    Sorry, I guess I did ask a pretty open question there. What are your thoughts on strong side vs appendix carry in this realm? Is there a big advantage to one or the other or is it just one of those things where each present different issues that you need to account for.

    If it helps to get where I'm coming from, I've been training BJJ for a some time now and while I'm not a world class competitor I'm pretty comfortable with my ability to make space and get to a dominant position if I have to. I haven't done any training that integrates weapons with grappling though and that's something I know I need to address.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I personally prefer appendix carry. I am loathe to say it is better than strong side, but there are a couple of ways it does shine. The best reason for it is one I have yet to hear any shooter talk about and that is with AIWB, it is far less likely that I will chicken-wing my elbows outwards while drawing. Arguably that is irrelevant at outside contact range, but within contact range that is quite literally one of the worst things to do. It is also consistently one of the things beginners violate when they start learning how to fight at that range. If I see that gap in an opponent, I WILL take advantage of it, and it most likely will go a long way towards me winning that encounter. With strong side, it is almost impossible to not bend the elbow far out from the body.

    I also like that AIWB gives me much greater protection against a gun grab.

    But that is personal, and if someone prefers strong side carry, that is not a problem. You just have to be aware of a couple of issues.

    If you are already doing BJJ, then I would definitely encourage you to get to an ECQC as soon as possible. It will shortcut almost all the problems you might have when you plug in weapons to your current BJJ game.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

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