Originally Posted by DocGKR
This.
I always thought they made a pretty good home defence gun.
This.
I always thought they made a pretty good home defence gun.
https://www.facebook.com/dave.bateman.311
kimbers have more issues than time magazine.
Exactly. Both defense lawyers and prosecutors are becoming more savvy about guns in general; and how to portray a client/suspect in a good or bad light, as desired, regardless of whether their angle is correct or not. I was sitting in on a pre-trial conference the other day when this very topic (military-type weaponry is "more deadly" than non-military type) was discussed ; I'm in the chain of custody, worse the luck, and managed- with great difficulty- to keep my mouth shut. Because the prosecutor is trying to bury this guy, and is grabbing every angle he can… to convince the jury. Hey, the guy needs burying; but as I sat there, listening to the impassioned bleats of this prosecutor, I could see that same passion being applied to a citizen who committed a politically-incorrect act of self-defense… and a chill ran up my spine.
Anyway, if this kind of nonsense can occur down here, where guns in general are not villainized as a matter of course… I shudder to see what goes on in gun-unfriendly venues. Back in my day, either it was a good shoot or it wasn't. Nobody gave a shit what you used. Times have definitely changed.
And I'll tell you guys something else; deviating from the stock, as-issued (as sold by the manufacturer) condition of a firearm can come back to haunt you as well. We have a case right now, where a deputy unintentionally killed a person due to flex/reflex response. That was bad enough; but said deputy fancied himself a gun guru, and had a Haley skimmer trigger in his G34. That tidbit is going to add an extra zero onto the wrongful death reparations check the sheriff's office is going to cut when its all over… because plaintiff's attorney did his homework on after-market goodies.
I am NOT "raising an alarm", playing Chicken Little, etc. I'm just relaying facts. I've seen quite a few i-experts poo-poohing this; they are wrong.
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I've seen enough bizarre jury behavior to understand that you can never tell what they are going to do. Certainly rebutting the evil gun thing can be done with opposing experts. That does add cost and you never know what can happen, especially if the jury is full of soccer moms or if there is a racial component. I once had a defendant convicted of attempted armed robbery after pulling a gun on me during an undercover drug buy, getting shot in the process. Defendant lives, goes to trial and is convicted of a significantly lesser and included offense of attempted armed robbery. And this was years ago in law enforcement friendly Louisiana.Exactly. Both defense lawyers and prosecutors are becoming more savvy about guns in general; and how to portray a client/suspect in a good or bad light, as desired, regardless of whether their angle is correct or not. I was sitting in on a pre-trial conference the other day when this very topic (military-type weaponry is "more deadly" than non-military type
Anyway, if this kind of nonsense can occur down here, where guns in general are not villainized as a matter of course… I shudder to see what goes on in gun-unfriendly venues. Back in my day, either it was a good shoot or it wasn't. Nobody gave a shit what you used. Times have definitely changed.
And I'll tell you guys something else; deviating from the stock, as-issued (as sold by the manufacturer) condition of a firearm can come back to haunt you as well. We have a case right now, where a deputy unintentionally killed a person due to flex/reflex response. That was bad enough; but said deputy fancied himself a gun guru, and had a Haley skimmer trigger in his G34. That tidbit is going to add an extra zero onto the wrongful death reparations check the sheriff's office is going to cut when its all over… because plaintiff's attorney did his homework on after-market goodies.
I am NOT "raising an alarm", playing Chicken Little, etc. I'm just relaying facts. I've seen quite a few i-experts poo-poohing this; they are wrong.
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One of the jury members said later that the police always lie against the brothers......I shit you not. After all, said drug dealer just wanted to pull the gun and scare the white boy and take his money. He wasn't actually going to shoot him.
Anyway, my personal OPINION, is that gun modifications can hurt you the worst when it's not an intentional shooting. Then the arguments of lighter trigger, etc can be used effectively. The event never would have happened if not for these evil trigger mods. On a department gun with a policy against such things, which most have, then the individual officer could be left holding the bag if the agency wanted to go that route.
There are certain mods I do to my cary guns, but I can explain why and what they do. I use factory 3.5 lb. connectors in my Glocks, factory expended slide stop levers and a Vickers mag catch. The 3.5 lb. connector is easily defended by me based on their history of use with LSP SWAT on factory provided guns, along with them being standard parts on the 34 and 35. If I wanted the absolutely best Glock shooting trigger using factory parts, I'd get a Vanek Custom GSSF trigger kit, which is essentially polished factory parts, and use stock springs. Charlie and I had this discussion once.
I carried a Bruce Gray lightly tweaked 226R for a few years just before I retired. Again, no problem defending what was done, as all safety values remained and work performed by factory armorer as a carry gun.
Violating your agency's firearms policy is not something I would do. It's way too easy to find yourself holding the bag by yourself.
For the OP, if I lived where the type gun I used in a home defense shooting would be an issue, I'd use a shotgun. There is nothing wrong with simply getting a slug/deer barrel for your hunting gun. I'd also consider a lever action.
Last edited by LSP552; 09-27-2015 at 10:43 AM.
+1.
JR1572
Mas Ayoob opined years ago that the pistol was best when you were in some type of recon/rescue mode, and the long gun as heavy artillery from a fixed, ensconded position. Made sense to me.
"It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
-Maple Syrup Actual
Ref aftermarket and such, I'm aware of the case LSP speaks of, and methinks it not the aftermarket part that will be biting that deputy in the ass, it's the fact that the trigger in question was less than half the weight of what anyone with any sense would advise for a street 1911. Stock or not, "hair trigger" is a term of common usage in the English language for a reason.
Even with MagPul ten round mags, which are reliable in my experience, the AR has a lot to offer if the gun itself is legal.
I tend to advise shotguns for people who hunt and thus are familiar with them, or in a scenario where distance will never be an issue, or in places where big animals may be the burglar at your house.
I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
www.agiletactical.com
Uh… its not a 1911, its a G34. And trust me; its ALL about the "aftermarket trigger". I can't say anything more at this time, but I'll be glad to fill you in once the dust clears.
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Yeah, I know it was a Glock, my point was that competent firearms trainers think for a 1911, which has both a thumb and grip safety, a 4lb trigger, or maybe just a bit more, is as low as you want one for the street. Going with a sub 2lb trigger, stock or not, especially on a Glock, is stupid as hell.
Last edited by Chuck Haggard; 09-28-2015 at 08:37 PM.
I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
www.agiletactical.com
Of course. But that is not the main angle plaintiff's attorney is pursuing.
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Just saw these 15rd AR mags. I can't vouch for them as I've never used any of their products. I was at their site checking the status of their clear Glock mag project.
http://www.etsgroup.us/AR15-Magazine...p/ar15-15p.htm
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