Each point down will now equal 1 second added to your time...

[johncorey]

I understand the idea behind it but for a sport (which IDPA is, despite anyone's thinking) that people pay and burn days off to shoot it's a 100% guaranteed way to kill it off almost overnight. This isn't training, and they're not people. People do this for entertainment, despite IDPA trying their best to ruin that. If someone around here did it for anything other than a one off gimmick everyone knew about ahead of time they'd be laughed out of the state.

I'm trying to grasp at how that's an intelligent organization decision in any way shape or form. You might as well indeed start charging people 100 bucks per no shoot target. Punch them in the head while you're at it.

I guess we have incredibly different values placed on target discrimination when running a firearm. I completely disagree that IDPA is a "one off gimmick". That would be a rather grand waste of my time.

How is it not an intelligent decision to reenforce the entire purpose of IDPA? Remove the gaming aspect, add realism/defensive pistol applications.....tagging a cardboard bystander doesn't really factor into that. The only shooting competition I would truly consider a game, and very much so enjoy, is Steel Challenge.

[orionz06]

The last time I got "advice" from someone at an IDPA match they told me lights on guns were dumb and they shot with a tea cup grip. Actually every time I've gotten advice has been from someone who used a grip other than what is "normal" and accepted. They also sucked. I am sure there are some good ones but a $20 match isn't the place for teaching. I'm sure they think they're helping but it's probably doing more harm.

[cclaxton]

The last time I got "advice" from someone at an IDPA match they told me lights on guns were dumb and they shot with a tea cup grip. Actually every time I've gotten advice has been from someone who used a grip other than what is "normal" and accepted. They also sucked. I am sure there are some good ones but a $20 match isn't the place for teaching. I'm sure they think they're helping but it's probably doing more harm.

If that is happening, then that needs fixed. None of the SO's I have trained or who work matches I attend would attempt to give advice unless they knew what they were talking about. MOST of the coaching I do is actually very basic: lean to get shots behind cover rather than going to combat footing, don't pull the mag out, let the mag drop, don't crowd cover unless it makes sense tactically (such as barrels), slow down and get your hits, go home and practice your reloading, etc. It is not "teaching" it is coaching, and there is a difference. We do offer IDPA Skills Classes where we actually teach.
Cody

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It's sort of like sport Judo as an argument. Is it self-defense or a sport? Why can't I bite you or poke you in the eye?

Of course, it is not a realistic self-defense scenario. Most scenarios, I would just run away. It reminds me of the NTI. One run had a house you had to enter with pizza. You open the door and there is blood. Go search and save whomever. One participant refused to go in as it wasn't realistic. Duh - that wasn't the point. There was another where you were in a shopping center and you had to go down a hallway. I, at first, said - I won't. The SO said you must as it is part of the exercise.

There is not realism in a really, real sense. So you don't use a super blaster and stand in the open - it's still not real. You want real - you need well planned, scripted and refereed FOF.

As IPSC became more of game, IDPA was a touch of course correction but still a game. My champion level friends tell new shooters that.

As far as idiot advice - you are on the Internet. I've seen the teacup grip from good ol' TX boys who shoot that way cuz Daddy taught them and he was a Marine! No offense to Marines. I shoot with retired Marines who are excellent performers and skilled.

[Alpha Sierra]

I have a set of UK gun magazines before their bans. That's when they had handguns sports. Their editorials denounced our humanoid targets as examples of American fanatic blood lust in emphasizing killing in a 'sport.'

Who gives a shit what the British think?

Anyone?

Buehler?

[HopetonBrown]

We had a SO tell us we were press checking wrong by going over the top and pulling the slide back from in front of the ejection port using the web between out thumb and index finger. He said he was an Instructor, as if that's worth anything.

[Alpha Sierra]

I guess we have incredibly different values placed on target discrimination when running a firearm. I completely disagree that IDPA is a "one off gimmick". That would be a rather grand waste of my time.

How is it not an intelligent decision to reenforce the entire purpose of IDPA? Remove the gaming aspect, add realism/defensive pistol applications.....tagging a cardboard bystander doesn't really factor into that. The only shooting competition I would truly consider a game, and very much so enjoy, is Steel Challenge.

I've seen way more no shoots in USPSA stages (as a % of the total targets) than in IDPA stages. And no shoots hurt your score more in USPSA.......

[NEPAKevin]

Around these here parts, and most others I have been to, hitting a non-threat is not just points down, its points down and a busting of the balls from your friends and fellow shooters. Although, I have seen this mitigated by prior designation of the NT on a tight head shot as something along the lines of the "mother-in-law" or "democrat" target.

While I disagree that IDPA matches are training, I do believe that they often provide incentive for improvement and have seen the growth of organized practice sessions as well as competition oriented classes taught by established shooters filling quickly while the more "tactically" oriented get cancelled for lack of participation. People can criticize IDPA all they want, but the reality is that it is a popular venue particularly for novice shooters who are geared toward self defense and concealed carry and has brought many female and young people into competitive shooting. It would not have grown as large an organization as it is with out merits that out weigh the derision of the nay-sayers.

[Peally]

I guess we have incredibly different values placed on target discrimination when running a firearm. I completely disagree that IDPA is a "one off gimmick". That would be a rather grand waste of my time.

How is it not an intelligent decision to reenforce the entire purpose of IDPA? Remove the gaming aspect, add realism/defensive pistol applications.....tagging a cardboard bystander doesn't really factor into that. The only shooting competition I would truly consider a game, and very much so enjoy, is Steel Challenge.

We must, when I shoot a game I don't lose sleep over shooting a brown paper target with hands painted on it, nor do I consider IDPA, USPSA, 3-Gun, or any other game of any tactical usefulness past a way to test my fundamentals against skilled shooters and the clock.

If you consider IDPA anything more than a game I'm afraid there's nothing more I can say to you other than I'm glad you're having fun and keep on doing what makes you happy.

[cclaxton]

Around these here parts, and most others I have been to, hitting a non-threat is not just points down, its points down and a busting of the balls from your friends and fellow shooters. Although, I have seen this mitigated by prior designation of the NT on a tight head shot as something along the lines of the "mother-in-law" or "democrat" target.

While I disagree that IDPA matches are training, I do believe that they often provide incentive for improvement and have seen the growth of organized practice sessions as well as competition oriented classes taught by established shooters filling quickly while the more "tactically" oriented get cancelled for lack of participation. People can criticize IDPA all they want, but the reality is that it is a popular venue particularly for novice shooters who are geared toward self defense and concealed carry and has brought many female and young people into competitive shooting. It would not have grown as large an organization as it is with out merits that out weigh the derision of the nay-sayers.

Price has a LOT to do with this. Shooters can go shoot for $20 for 20 matches for the cost of one weekend $400 course, and get tips and help from other shooters at the match. I am not saying the $400 course isn't worth it...just saying for many the cost is a big factor.
Cody